24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,953
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,953
Originally Posted by billtrev
I'm not sure that it's the "the best" but you might want to check out the Grohmann #1

X2! .... I recently picked up this old Grohman carbon for $20 in a pawn shop. Good knives, great design.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

GB1

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,577
Likes: 3
R
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,577
Likes: 3
I've got the full set of them[including folder].
Great knives!


FJB & FJT
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
If you're looking for a practical folding hunting knife, I don't think you can beat the Havalon Titan for the price.

Steve.

Why invest that kind of money into a cheap Chinese blade?

So that no one is tempted to believe what isn't true, the big blade on a Havalon Titan is not Chinese. It is AUS-8 steel, which is a Japanese steel with a relatively high carbon content. It is used in most SOG knives and many, many, many others. The replaceable 60A scalpel blade is made in India. This is what your doctor most likely uses when he does surgery on you. But then, I suppose you could tell your surgeon not to use it.

(As I talk to doctors who are also hunters I learn that most of them use a scalpel in the field, and those who do not know about Havalon are very happy to learn about it.)

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
If you're looking for a practical folding hunting knife, I don't think you can beat the Havalon Titan for the price.

Steve.

Why invest that kind of money into a cheap Chinese blade?

So that no one is tempted to believe what isn't true, the big blade on a Havalon Titan is not Chinese. It is AUS-8 steel, which is a Japanese steel with a relatively high carbon content. It is used in most SOG knives and many, many, many others. The replaceable 60A scalpel blade is made in India. This is what your doctor most likely uses when he does surgery on you. But then, I suppose you could tell your surgeon not to use it.

(As I talk to doctors who are also hunters I learn that most of them use a scalpel in the field, and those who do not know about Havalon are very happy to learn about it.)

Steve.


Aus 8 is among the worst performing blade steels for edge retention, however, it is surpassed in poor performance by 420HC in a Buck 110, which comes in next to last place. The upside to a Havalon is the blades are disposable and easily changed.

fwiw - I've cleaned plenty of deer with a Buck 110, a multi-tool, a kitchen paring knife and a box cutter once. Any sharp edged object will work, but a good design with good steel with good heat treatment makes the work significantly easier.

With today's better steels with better heat treat, better sharpening skills are required, which is another issue to consider. For those that do not have the time or patience to learn to really sharpen, the Havalon is a decent choice. For those with the inclination to learn and who are willing to invest in better stones, a well made fixed blade is a joy to use. With the best steels and heat treatment, the old Arkansas stones are not going to do the job. Diamond or silicon carbide stones are the way to go for the high end steels with good heat treatment on them.

For those that are interested in some test results, this might be of interest.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Poor edge retention. I guess that's why so many knife makers use it. Havalon's AUS-8 is cryo-hardened, if that makes a difference.

Keep in mind, in reference to your comment on the "upside" of the Havalon blade, it's the scalpel blade that's replaceable, which is not AUS-8. It's a proprietary stainless formula Havels provides to the medical industry.

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
IC B2

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Poor edge retention. I guess that's why so many knife makers use it. Havalon's AUS-8 is cryo-hardened, if that makes a difference.

Keep in mind, in reference to your comment on the "upside" of the Havalon blade, it's the scalpel blade that's replaceable, which is not AUS-8. It's a proprietary stainless formula Havels provides to the medical industry.

Steve.


So are you saying the blade is Aus 8 or not? You suggest both in the quote. Either way Aus 8 is among the worst performing steels for edge retention.

To answer your question about why Aus 8 is widely used in low price point knives, selling what the average consumer will buy, while maximizing profit margins by minimizing the cost to manufacture is the answer.

For most consumers, ease of sharpening and price point are more important than edge retention, so that is what they are sold.

Rather than relying on marketing hype, take a look at the test results. There is much to be learned be from facts.

fyi from a knife review source:

"AUS-8 Steel is similar to 440 steel. It has Vanadium to give the steel more hardness. AUS-8a steel is very easy to sharpen to a razor edge but it will dull fast. Some reviewers online say that it’ll dull by just being out in oxygen."

Also: "AUS-8a is almost the same thing as AUS-8. It is often called 8a steel as well. What differs AUS-8a from AUS-8 is that it has been heat treated. They are the same steel with the same makeup of metals however. Both AUS8 and AUS8a are very similar to the 440 line of steels. The 440 line is made by an American company whereas the AUS line is made by a Japanese company. Some AUS steel is made in China."


http://www.knifeup.com/what-is-aus-8a-steel/







Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499
Aus 8 is very similar in composition to cpm 154, which is a pretty decent blade steel. Are there steels today that are superior ? Sure but it's not a bad steel at all and will hold an edge well enough for the average hunter with an average experience in sharpening knives. I like a good fixed blade with a higher end steel, cpm M4 or s90v, but I'm kind of a knife nut.

MM


Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,122
Likes: 1
M
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,122
Likes: 1
Where the raw steel is made is no guarantee of where it was turned into a blade or knife and to how well it was heat treated.
jmho
Tim


"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein

At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
If you're looking for a practical folding hunting knife, I don't think you can beat the Havalon Titan for the price.

Steve.

Why invest that kind of money into a cheap Chinese blade?

So that no one is tempted to believe what isn't true, the big blade on a Havalon Titan is not Chinese. It is AUS-8 steel, which is a Japanese steel with a relatively high carbon content. It is used in most SOG knives and many, many, many others. The replaceable 60A scalpel blade is made in India. This is what your doctor most likely uses when he does surgery on you. But then, I suppose you could tell your surgeon not to use it.

(As I talk to doctors who are also hunters I learn that most of them use a scalpel in the field, and those who do not know about Havalon are very happy to learn about it.)

Steve.


What a bunch of posturing nonsense. Well doctors know best and would you believe it.... Product validation on surgicals scalpels related to medical devices is done by skinning deer! If you don't believe it, have your surgeon stop operating on you with the ultimate solution to skinning a moose and die.
How dumb.
The product is liked by a certain segment, but good god man.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
I know a LOT of guides that swear by havalon. I have not used anything else to speak of since finding them.... I use a green river skinner or cotton bale knife at times for the skinning part, but not making cuts to start skinning.

I keep other knives around for other chores, but seeing how well the havalon has cleaned moose for me a few times, I doubt I"ll ever need more for 99% of what I do.

Those that can't make it work, are not attempting to IMHO.

But if you enjoy knives for the looks, and like sharpening etc.... thats obviously your right.

I'm not sure a titan would be for me, but the replaceable blade ones are one of the best things to come along in many moons.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
IC B3

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Originally Posted by smallfry
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
If you're looking for a practical folding hunting knife, I don't think you can beat the Havalon Titan for the price.

Steve.

Why invest that kind of money into a cheap Chinese blade?

So that no one is tempted to believe what isn't true, the big blade on a Havalon Titan is not Chinese. It is AUS-8 steel, which is a Japanese steel with a relatively high carbon content. It is used in most SOG knives and many, many, many others. The replaceable 60A scalpel blade is made in India. This is what your doctor most likely uses when he does surgery on you. But then, I suppose you could tell your surgeon not to use it.

(As I talk to doctors who are also hunters I learn that most of them use a scalpel in the field, and those who do not know about Havalon are very happy to learn about it.)

Steve.

What a bunch of posturing nonsense. Well doctors know best and would you believe it.... Product validation on surgicals scalpels related to medical devices is done by skinning deer! If you don't believe it, have your surgeon stop operating on you with the ultimate solution to skinning a moose and die.
How dumb.
The product is liked by a certain segment, but good god man.

Well, smallfry, what's dumb is to take one parenthetical statement and generalize from that. The whole point of the post was to correct a wrong statement about the origin of the steels in the traditional blade and the replaceable blade on the double-bladed Titan model. In referencing the origin of the replaceable 60A blade, I mentioned it was a scalpel used in the medical industry. So far, everything I stated was factual.

Notice that I separated the next sentence (also a factual statement) by paragraph break and parentheses. Based on that sentence it's wrong to assume that surgeons are the only group to use and like Havalon knives, but since they use scalpels every day and are adopters of the Havalon knife, their word is worth something, maybe not to smallfry, but it is worth something.

Countless guides use them too, and that happens to be a key group that bought into the knife when it first hit the market. I've seen guides who don't know how to field dress a deer; perhaps many of us have. But as a group they are heavy users of hunting knives and I've heard some pretty amazing testimonials from some of them.

I myself had doubts about the Havalon knife, until I used it. It made me wish I had one years sooner. And I know from these posts and from my contact with actual people that not everyone who criticizes Havalon knives has actually used one.

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Originally Posted by jeffbird
So are you saying the blade is Aus 8 or not? You suggest both in the quote. Either way Aus 8 is among the worst performing steels for edge retention.

I suggest nothing of the sort. Careful reading answers many questions. All my comments have been about the new Havalon Titan knife. It's a two-bladed folding knife, something we are all familiar with. One blade is permanent, made from AUS-8 steel. The other blade is replaceable, a proprietary surgical scalpel of size 60A.

Hope that helps.

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,247
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,247
I generally pair my old Buck Vanguard for tougher tasks with my Hunters Edge Razor Lite for skinning. I have other knives, but those two get used the most, as a combo. Buying brand new, the pair is about $100.


Now with even more aplomb
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
And I know from these posts and from my contact with actual people that not everyone who criticizes Havalon knives has actually used one.


Steve,

I've used one, a Piranta, tried it, and can understand the appeal.

Having said that, I do not care for them for a few reasons. Foremost, I had to change a blade in cold rain with bare hands. The change went fine without incident, but I could easily see a fumble causing a severe cut. Were I to use a Havalon again, I'd only change blades with a multi-tool. If I have to carry a multi-tool, I'd just as soon carry another decent knife. Second, they are more hassle to clean after use, which is also why I no longer use a folder of any kind. Last, I've seen someone else using one and the blade snapped when he tried to remove a rear quarter. Was it misuse? Too much lateral torque? I don't know, but trying to fish out the broken bit of blade goes back to my first point.

As stated, to be clear, I can see the appeal of the Havalon, and would use one if something better was beyond my budget or were I unable or unwilling to sharpen a blade. But, a good fixed blade is my preference.



Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by smallfry
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
If you're looking for a practical folding hunting knife, I don't think you can beat the Havalon Titan for the price.

Steve.

Why invest that kind of money into a cheap Chinese blade?

So that no one is tempted to believe what isn't true, the big blade on a Havalon Titan is not Chinese. It is AUS-8 steel, which is a Japanese steel with a relatively high carbon content. It is used in most SOG knives and many, many, many others. The replaceable 60A scalpel blade is made in India. This is what your doctor most likely uses when he does surgery on you. But then, I suppose you could tell your surgeon not to use it.

(As I talk to doctors who are also hunters I learn that most of them use a scalpel in the field, and those who do not know about Havalon are very happy to learn about it.)

Steve.

What a bunch of posturing nonsense. Well doctors know best and would you believe it.... Product validation on surgicals scalpels related to medical devices is done by skinning deer! If you don't believe it, have your surgeon stop operating on you with the ultimate solution to skinning a moose and die.
How dumb.
The product is liked by a certain segment, but good god man.

Well, smallfry, what's dumb is to take one parenthetical statement and generalize from that. The whole point of the post was to correct a wrong statement about the origin of the steels in the traditional blade and the replaceable blade on the double-bladed Titan model. In referencing the origin of the replaceable 60A blade, I mentioned it was a scalpel used in the medical industry. So far, everything I stated was factual.

Notice that I separated the next sentence (also a factual statement) by paragraph break and parentheses. Based on that sentence it's wrong to assume that surgeons are the only group to use and like Havalon knives, but since they use scalpels every day and are adopters of the Havalon knife, their word is worth something, maybe not to smallfry, but it is worth something.

Countless guides use them too, and that happens to be a key group that bought into the knife when it first hit the market. I've seen guides who don't know how to field dress a deer; perhaps many of us have. But as a group they are heavy users of hunting knives and I've heard some pretty amazing testimonials from some of them.

I myself had doubts about the Havalon knife, until I used it. It made me wish I had one years sooner. And I know from these posts and from my contact with actual people that not everyone who criticizes Havalon knives has actually used one.

Steve.



You should be more concise. You made a generalized set of statements and became bummed when someone made a generalized statement about them.

For the third time, I think the product is great for a certain strata of the population. There is a bunch of folks that eat this stuff up and are nothing but happy with the performance grin

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,279
Originally Posted by jeffbird
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
And I know from these posts and from my contact with actual people that not everyone who criticizes Havalon knives has actually used one.

Steve,

I've used one, a Piranta, tried it, and can understand the appeal.

Having said that, I do not care for them for a few reasons. Foremost, I had to change a blade in cold rain with bare hands. The change went fine without incident, but I could easily see a fumble causing a severe cut. Were I to use a Havalon again, I'd only change blades with a multi-tool. If I have to carry a multi-tool, I'd just as soon carry another decent knife. Second, they are more hassle to clean after use, which is also why I no longer use a folder of any kind. Last, I've seen someone else using one and the blade snapped when he tried to remove a rear quarter. Was it misuse? Too much lateral torque? I don't know, but trying to fish out the broken bit of blade goes back to my first point.

As stated, to be clear, I can see the appeal of the Havalon, and would use one if something better was beyond my budget or were I unable or unwilling to sharpen a blade. But, a good fixed blade is my preference.

Jeffbird:
You speak from experience regarding blade changing, and you most likely are talking about the 60XT blade. I agree, it's not for everyone. What you may not know, however, is that Havalon addressed your issues with a newer blade, the 60A, which is 20% thicker, making it far less prone to breakage. In addition, the new 60A blade has a small extension at the base which is much easier to lift so that the blade can be slid off with ease.

It's a clear product upgrade, but one that is not noticed to the casual observer.

I have three suggestions for you and for anyone else who is reading:
1. That you check the Havalon website to see what I'm talking about.
2. That you give the new double-bladed Havalon Titan a look. It far exceeded my expectations, and eliminates the need to carry an extra knife with a stronger blade.
3. That you check out the new blade remover. It eliminates the need for pliers or any other blade removing tool. It completely encloses the sharp edge of the blade so it's impossible to cut yourself. With this simple tool the knife literally drops away from the blade.

As with any new product, user feedback results in improvements, and that's certainly true of the Havalon knives on the market today.

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,111
Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,111
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
3. That you check out the new blade remover. It eliminates the need for pliers or any other blade removing tool. It completely encloses the sharp edge of the blade so it's impossible to cut yourself. With this simple tool the knife literally drops away from the blade.

Real men aren't afraid to change them with just their cold, bloody, hurried fingers. Many were quick to point that out in a thread I started inquiring about the remover, which true to form stayed off-topic.

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Originally Posted by czech1022


But a $10 off coupon from Cabelas just made up my mind for me. That plus 20% off the Buck/Alaskan Guide Vanguard SV30 leaves me with enough to also pick up a Victorinox Camper as a hunting pocketknife!


Good call....both are solid knives.
I bought a Vanguard the first year they came out....still got it.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910
P
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
P
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910
I guess the China stamp on the Titan blade is for show?

The fact is, there are better blades for the same money.

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 703
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 703
Mora 510, you can buy 10 for $100 shipped.

Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

537 members (1Longbow, 1minute, 1badf350, 2500HD, 219 Wasp, 219DW, 61 invisible), 2,339 guests, and 1,288 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,193,175
Posts18,503,209
Members73,993
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.228s Queries: 55 (0.013s) Memory: 0.9280 MB (Peak: 1.0640 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-10 23:36:24 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS