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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
I know large pistol caliber firearms are roundly hated here on the fire, poor Shrapnel every time he tells us about his Beretta CX4 Storm's gets lambasted mostly from people who just think 9mm, 40S&W suck from any type of carbine etc.
I was speaking to a person at my local gun store today and he has the 9mm storm. He loves the thing, accurate, cheap to shoot.
Tell me again why we don't want a light weight 9mm carbine? Why do we always want a 223?
I would think the 9mm CX4 would be practical for a home defense gun????
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921 |
Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt.
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Posts: 8,579
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,579 |
Oh Travis
This post is calling you
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
why not the 223 I think is a big argument?
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
I had a Colt 9mm AR and really liked it for a range gun and suppose it would work just fine at closer ranges. Run one through some drills and the zero recoil makes it easy to look good.
I just think the 223/5.56 offers so much more...
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,566 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,566 Likes: 1 |
Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt. Far from ugly. You want ugly, look at a Walther. The Storm will out shoot any carbine in it's class. People always badmouth the 9mm too, but you will never hear someone shot with a 9mm say..."Gee, that didn't hurt"...
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,566 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,983
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,983 |
I think it's a great idea.
I've added one to "the list".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,755 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,755 Likes: 1 |
Asstaed above, for the sMe size and weight and cost, you get more range and power from a 223/5.56.
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,732
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,732 |
I don't want a 9MM carbine. I don't care though, if others want one. See no need to justify either choice.
Sam......
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,755 Likes: 1 |
Actually I do want one
Just have to prioritize gun money
BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,205 Likes: 1 |
You never hear someone shot with a .22 or even a pellet rifle saying "Gee that didn't hurt", but it doesn't make it a great choice for self defense. Yes, the 9mm out of a long barrel will do lots of things well, but it doesn't do anything better than the 5.56 except it is a tad quieter and kicks a bit less. As a fun gun, I say go for it. As a self defense gun, go for it. Better than a 5.56? Nope.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,566 Likes: 1 |
I will bet if you looked at the record of people killed throughout he world, with a 9mm, you would find more than a few. Getting more power to make up for personal ineptitude only goes so far. I would also speculate that 99% or more of people preparing themselves for self defense will never have to resort to their choice of firearm.
Massad Ayoob makes a living from selling fear of personal harm. He has written tons on personal defense, and as much as I believe in being prepared, it is guys like him writing all those articles that set up a society with a genuine fear and an artificial solution...
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
My wife does not like to shoot a 5.56 carbine because of muzzle blast but loved a Ruger PC 40. I know it does not have the range or potential penetration of a 5.56 but a 180gr at 1300fps is nothing to complain about. The 165 golddot was right at 1400fps and is the go to load for her. I would much rather have her run the .40 or 9mm carbine she can hit with than the AR she does not like.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
Most people just seem skeeered of the 9mm cartridge for some reason. I think a SBR EVO Scorpion or a Sig MPX would be handy in many situations.
Check out the military arms channel on youtube. He did a recent gellatin test with the 9mm.
But on the Beretta CX4 Storm, well, it looks like schitt. I saw that SIG MPX the other day, it is a cool looking pistol, I think the reviews on it are very good.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,923 |
I posted a few weeks back about pistol round AR's and received zero responses.
My thought was 45acp or 10mm, heavy bullets, sub-sonic and suppressed would be fun to shoot and beneficial in the rare instance I had to use it inside the home for self defense.
Dave
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I prefer the .223 to just about anything these days. Bolt or semi.
But there are advantages to the pistol stuff in carbines. This was figured out in the 1800's so there's no reason to discuss advantages to commonality. Yes, it's still a pistol round but most people can put rounds on target at greater distance more easier when it's flying out of a shoulder fired weapon. As far as aesthetics, look at all the old Winchesters chambered in pistol rounds. You'd need a PhD in ugly to make a stupider looking firearm but they worked great and so do the Storms.
As far as the AR platform and pistol cartridges are concerned, I have seen some great running Colt's chambered in 9mm and that is where the "good" list ends. I won't even fire a .40 cal version and I've not seen one chambered in .45.
The .45 and the .40 cal versions (to me) are the most practical and the reason for that is sub-sonic stuff comes in factory form and is everywhere. Also, there is an untold amount of handloading info to keep stuff under 1,100fps and the firearms are still going to function 100% because they're built for those type of loads. If you have no desire to go suppressed, then this is of no concern to you. If you think super sonic ammo is "quiet enough" then this is of no concern to you either.
The Ruger carbines are UBER and I think they'd sell like crazy if they reintroduced them today. But they're only going up in price so they are what they are and I wouldn't want to alter one from factory form.
The Storms are not extremely common but they are common enough and can be had for a decent price. Threading is about $200 and if you want to SBR it, it's another $200 and you'll have a very compact carbine even with most suppressors attached.
I know the Blackout gets lots of love but I think if I want to sling 200gr bullets at sub-sonic speeds, I'd prefer to shoot a bullet designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds as opposed to something designed to fly from a 300 Win Mag.
Yes, I know about the Leheigh type bullets but at the end of the day you'll be paying a fugk of a lot more for 1,000 of those than you will for 1,000 XTP's. And for the ranges you shoot 200gr sub-sonic stuff you'll not notice a change in POI if you plink with HAP's.
This is why I don't hate them.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I don't like all that plastic, get a good Colt SAA and an 1873 and call it good.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I don't like all that plastic, get a good Colt SAA and an 1873 and call it good. That's what I told shrap. He won't listen. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Metrosexual. I've got $20 says he's had a Latte with Brad in Bozeman in the last week.
Ever notice in the pics that Shrap is dressed a lot like Paddler?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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