Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Seems Russia played it dumb today

Kick the tiger in the azz, you'd better have a plan for the teeth. What they did was send 40 year old bombers that were never that great to begin with against the varsity of NATO aircraft, with no fighter escort; that's really dumb.

E5's and E6's when I was in (20yrs ago). E7's were platoon sergeants.

"that's really dumb."


Nope...calculated...

Here's my guesses:

First, the Russians have been testing NATO. Each time they fly near NATO airspace and see how NATO responds, they learn more about the NATO systems and equipment. The Soviets did that in the bad old days. Of course we did that back at the Soviets.

Second, The Russians, while they claim to have been bombing ISIS, have actually spent a lot of of their effort bombing 'moderate' Turkish supported rebel groups. The Russians were trying to support of a Syrian-Hezbollah-Iranian offensive. (The offensive has not gone well, The Syrian Army is badly worn out.) The rebels were quite happy to finally be able shoot back at the Russian pilots and helicopters.

Third, A couple of weeks ago, the US Air Force sent to Turkey some top-of-the-line air superiority fighters. The Turkish attack was not done in isolation. We had not needed them there until the Russians deployed and started playing chicken with us.

Fourth, the Turkish Premier Erdogan, just barely won re-election recently. To do that he had to restart the Kurdish insurrection in the south of Turkey. It produced the needed circle-the-wagons effect among his supporters. Now he needs to find a way to end the Kurdish Insurrection. He may be thinking that an external enemy is better than an internal enemy.

The measured distance of the Su-24's alleged incursion into Turkish airspace is 2.39 miles from entrance to exit.

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

At a crusing speed of 300mph, the Su-24 would only be in Turkish territory for about 28 seconds.

There is no way the Turkish F-16 could have fired, and struck, the Su-24 while it was still in Turkish territory. Either the pilot fired before the Su-24 entered Turkish airspace, or else the F-16 struck the Russian plane after it had left Turkey.

Something clearly does not add up.

From here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...on-turkey-moves-warship-coast-destroy-an

Perhaps the initial placement of a pawn?

Never trust the country of turkey

In the Marines it is normally:

E4 - Fire Team Leader
E5 - Squad Leader
E6 - Platoon Sergeant
2LT - Platoon Leader

Has it been confirmed that it was an F-16 that brought it down, or is it just press speculation?

I think this Thanksgiving Turkey will be well and truly cooked.

Shot down over Syrian airspace.

Turkey produces its own F-16's under license from General Dynamics. I believe the F-16 is Turkey's sole fighter aircraft.

See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Air_Force

No need for fighter escort when flying over unopposed skies. Won't be the first time a jet strays over, although with GPS today, it's hard to fathom. As to the Rescue mission, we don't have the full picture of "Indian Country" and the Russians are completely new at this, especially if the decide to use that HUGE POS MiG-31 Foxbat for a fighter escort. About all it can do is fly FAST, with horrendous maneuverability and flying fast, it's still no match for an A-A missile, so they can run, but they'll just die with emptier fuel tanks. Those F-16s will eat their lunch.

In Russia, it's a life defining moment.

Russia dissolving all ties with Turkey should get really interesting fairly soon.

Wouldn't be a damned bit surprised if Russia hadn't notified NATO alliance as to where it would be bombing and information wasn't handed over to the Turks...

More or less laying in wait and with intent!


Phil

Wonder what it would take for NATO to chuck Turkey out?

Or do we need their airbases and land access too much?

With their proven ties to ISIS it should be a no-brainer, but won't happen... unless Russia was to push the matter!

Phil

The US needs the Incirlik airbase in Turkey to attack ISIS too much to kick them out. Meanwhile, the Turks seem more interested in bombing the Kurds, who are our allies, than in bombing ISIS.

An independent Kurdistan would be a major asset for the West. Unfortunately, it would be carved out of Turkey in large part.

[quote=Nrut]The measured distance of the Su-24's alleged incursion into Turkish airspace is 2.39 miles from entrance to exit.

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

At a crusing speed of 300mph, the Su-24 would only be in Turkish territory for about 28 seconds.

There is no way the Turkish F-16 could have fired, and struck, the Su-24 while it was still in Turkish territory. Either the pilot fired before the Su-24 entered Turkish airspace, or else the F-16 struck the Russian plane after it had left Turkey.

Something clearly does not add up.

From here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...on-turkey-moves-warship-coast-destroy-an [/quote

28 seconds? The Turks claimed they radioed 10 warnings to the Russian plane, something which is obviously impossible. The plane was also well on the way out of Turkish airspace. After all it crashed in Syria, not Turkey. And the Syrian rebels shooting up the pilots after they parachuted was disgusting.

"Lavrov said Russia wants to know if Turkey sought U.S. permission to attack its plane. He said the new Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told him during talks that lasted more than one hour Wednesday that the Russian jet violated Turkey’s airspace for 17 seconds."

Not even 28 seconds.

Easy to do if the '16 had him coming in and fired when he crossed the line.