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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
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But if you live, you've won. Had a marine sgt tell me that once.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
An idiot instructor instructing an idiot.
Win/win?
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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I'd like to know who the "Grand Master" was who "fell apart" in a scenario you put on.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,697
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,697 |
But if you live, you've won. Had a marine sgt tell me that once. I meant to be sarcastic in that one; guess I didn't quite succeed. Bob
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
"Confidence in your ability goes a long way towards prevailing."
I've always said this because being able to unconsciously get your gun into play allows one to give 99% of your concentration to the situation at hand. In all the times I had to draw on someone I can only say the gun appeared in my hand. I have no memory of drawing it. It's the same way when doing the scenarios, buzzer goes off and the gun is on target....
Having confidence in your ability also allows you to not shoot someone, giving them that few seconds to decide to live instead of die...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
I did notice that and hope we know each other well enough to know I was joking... I figured there must have been some serious problem for you to do that...Bob I was sure your comment was tongue in cheek. no worries!
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
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I'd like to know who the "Grand Master" was who "fell apart" in a scenario you put on. I probably should not have said "Grand Master" as I only know these people to be top shots and internationally known instructors...and it was not my shoot...it was the National Tactical Invitational... The last part of the shoot was live fire Simunitions against real people...who for a change were very good actors. I think there was 11 or 12 teams. All the rest of the teams died in both scenarios because they went in with a "Game" mentality..bully your way through. They were all covered with hits. My one hit was in the support hand pinky knuckle and I killed the guy. My partner got hit in the shoulder just as we were about to exit the second scenario...and I killed the guy. I just did it like I did on the street...none of the others had ever done it "for real" before. Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Having the capability of hitting at 50yds and 100yds, on a man size target, with a duty/CC carry gun, should never be diminished by any instructor.
Any instructor that would do so is a fugking moron.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
But if you live, you've won. Had a marine sgt tell me that once. I meant to be sarcastic in that one; guess I didn't quite succeed. Bob It was before a bar fight anyway. Lawton, OK. 1987
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121 |
A well-rounded shooter should be able to do reasonably well at any reasonable distance, but why this silliness must continually be debated in theoretical terms continues to escape me.
The paradigm of small arms conflict involving both citizens and cops has been fairly steady since the invention of black powder. It ain't rocket science. While the occasional anomaly will always exist, the overwhelming majority of engagements are predictably measured in feet – not yards. A prudent man will prepare himself well for the probability before wasting time and resources on the outlying possibility.
Shooting static, full-size steel targets at 50 yards or more in the bright light of a square range bears little correlation to the skills necessary to dominate close range engagements at moving targets in low light.
The uninitiated are always easily impressed. NRA Endowment Member
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,275 Likes: 12 |
I am a civilian and I was talking to my concealed carry instructor and he just laughed when I told him about this forum. He said there is no way you could convince a judge that you were defending yourself from a threat at 50 yds away. So all the talk about flat shooting, accurate handguns is not an issue in Minnesota. What I want is something to defend against home invasion. Which would be a twelve gauge or a second choice would be a 45 acp
I will start the pop corn. whelennut Me thinks your instructor is a moron A recent case in TX comes to mind where a CCW'ER shot an assailant with a handgun at 65 yards.. Agreed, Gitem, instructor is a idiot! And I beleive the incedent your referring to, happened in Brown County, TX, about 75 miles south of me. Local SO responded to a shooting where the bad guy killed his neighbor over a dog barking dispute. When SO arrived on scene, the bad guy shot and killed the first Deputy that responded. During the shootout, a elderly CHL holder in his late 70's shot and killed the Perp at 60 to 75 yards with a .357 Magnum. Moral of the story, don't piss off a old Texan that can shoot a handgun! And as to making long range shots with a handgun, I started shooting Sillhoutte Competition in 1980 with a Super Black Hawk with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag. We shot Ram steel targets at 200 yards, and turkey steel targets at 200 yards in the shoot off if the match was tied after 40 rounds. And it wasn't unusual to see a shooter hit all 5 turkeys at 200 yards with just a plain old revolver. Personally, I can hit a 10" steel plate fairly regularly with my Glock 10mm. Not all that hard to do with some frequent practice, IMO
Last edited by chlinstructor; 11/28/15.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
I'd like to know who the "Grand Master" was who "fell apart" in a scenario you put on. Grand master B?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Shooting static, full-size steel targets at 50 yards or more in the bright light of a square range bears little correlation to the skills necessary to dominate close range engagements at moving targets in low light.
So we should only train for close range, moving targets, in low light? Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
long time ago playing county popo we regularly practiced out to 50yards, strong hand, weak hand, double handed, left and right barricade. You don't know what you are going to run into. distances can be short, or they can be longer. The cartels station people up on hilltops to monitor floor/valley activity. Those carry good long range optics setup systems. If you had a choice you would chose a rifle for sure but you may not have that choice. I remember the first dept public safety course i ran through, they did a lot of their shooting up close like five and 7yards. I thought it was pretty funny. but what do you expect from tail light chasers. I have always felt the capability to hit at longer distances made shorter distances like shooting at the side of a barn. The other comment is if you are going to carry, it isn't about paper targets. Probably admitting what it could be potentially used for is a good thing, and the mind set/skills needed to do it.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
sometime stand between two patrol cars when it is pitch black out with all lights going and the sirens and welpers at full blast and try to hit some targets. Much different game.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I am a civilian and I was talking to my concealed carry instructor and he just laughed when I told him about this forum. He said there is no way you could convince a judge that you were defending yourself from a threat at 50 yds away. So all the talk about flat shooting, accurate handguns is not an issue in Minnesota. What I want is something to defend against home invasion. Which would be a twelve gauge or a second choice would be a 45 acp
I will start the pop corn. whelennut if that guy was shooting at you, i don't think 50yards would throw a judge, particularly with a rifle. tell the instructor to go back to class. all of that is situational.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
a lot of these firearms training classes are on paper targets, places like gunsight being the exception. Reading some of sagebrush's exploits with a pistola on rabbits always made me think of my dad. His comment was when you get good enought to pop bunnies on the run consistently, then you have learned the game. It isn't so easy. Many times out quail hunting that is the game. trying to hit jackrabbits at a full gallop with a handgun till they are out of sight.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
For me it all boils down to one thing before a trigger gets pulled, can I obtain the necessary sight picture, sight alignment and trigger pull to achieve the desired hit? If I am trying to hit an 8" circle at 3 yards just about anything will work. Trying to hit that same 8" at 50 yards in bad light might be a shot I would take under one set of circumstance and will pass under others.
Someone said something like "a man's gotta know his limitations". I agree but add that a man needs to know his lowest true level of abilities, when he is at his worst. Under stress we do not rise to the occasion, we tend to drop to our lowest level of unconscious competence.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Yet another of God's many miracles. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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