|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,675 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,675 Likes: 3 |
@boatanchor what was the reason for the result your friend got? Or did he not have an explanation? this explains it better than I can, huge difference between Christensen and Proof Research Proof Research
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935 |
Tucker1965,
<snip>
Yes, there are some companies that earnestly suggest break-in procedures. If you feel like following them, go ahead. But like many other procedures in rifle shooting that supposedly are absolutely necessary, my testing convinced me it was a waste of time. And I'm too busy to waste time on useless stuff, like uniforming primer pockets in brass shot in factory hunting rifles, or breaking-in barrels by cleaning them after every shot, when neither makes any difference. John, When I received my NULA M24 .30-'06 from Melvin I decided to follow the Mule Deer Break-In Procedure (i.e. none) since I copied your specifications for the rifle. I am a little over 50 rounds down the bore since I mostly only hunt with that rifle. Also since I have been doing more ML seasons for elk meat the last few years I have been hunting with my old M90 ULA .50 instead of shooting more '06 cartridges. The ULA M90 is definitely a PITA to clean by the way, but it is a legal ML rifle in Orygun where I have been hunting. It was the first gun I bought from Melvin. I went to Kenny Jarrett's talk at the SCI Show a few years ago and found his explanation of his recommended method consistent with what he presented. His talk was definitely worth the time to listen and watch his photos if you haven't seen it I recommend it... jim
LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 178
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 178 |
Mule Deer, Thank you for your information. Wasn't intending to call anyone out, just honestly seeking advice and basis of opinions.
People come to me everyday seeking advice (its my job to give advice) and often ask the basis of my opinion. Never feel like I am being called out or that they are disrespecting me at all. People (me included) just want to make informed decisions. I will answer them and provide the basis of my opinion in a respectful and honest way, just as Mule Deer has done. That is all that was being requested.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Tucker1965,
No, I have never found any scientific studies that compare the results from a bunch of barrels that have been broken-in by the "accelerated" method or just shot. Apparently they don't exist, for the very reason smokepole stated: You'd have to compare a BUNCH of supposedly identical barrels before coming to any firm comclusions.
What I have done, however, is compare both the accelerated break-in method and various other methods over many years, including cleaning down to bare steel between range sessions, using fire-lapping bullets, and various other methods. I started this experimentation in the 1990's, when suddenly many shooters decided it had became necessary to "properly" break-in any new barrel immediately. (Somehow the word "properly" is often used, even though the methods vary considerably--including the furious scrubbing I've seen so often at ranges.)
My research was helped immensely by the use of a Hawkleye borescope to analyze the effectiveness of various techniques, but I also did some research into the origins of the method. Both led to the conclusions stated in my above post, but I've also published more than one full-length article on the subject containing more details.
Have also had conversations with several barrelmakers and custom riflesmiths who told me what I stated above: They only started suggesting a break-in procedure because so many of their customers were some convinced by all the break-in blather that it was absolutely necessary. So to prevent wasting time having to explain why break-in was also a waste of time, they just made up something and put it on their website and in their brochures.
Yes, there are some companies that earnestly suggest break-in procedures. If you feel like following them, go ahead. But like many other procedures in rifle shooting that supposedly are absolutely necessary, my testing convinced me it was a waste of time. And I'm too busy to waste time on useless stuff, like uniforming primer pockets in brass shot in factory hunting rifles, or breaking-in barrels by cleaning them after every shot, when neither makes any difference. Same thing goes for washing cars and making up the bed in the morning.  I'm in total agreement. Different subject but I've had a few barrels that didn't shoot well until they had a fair number of bullets down the tube so I guess I do believe in barrel break in, just not with a cleaning rod.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18 |
He really wasn't. Your post was on the verge of calling out one of the most extensively published gunwriters of our generation--a guy who does a lot of research before forming opinions.
JG was just trying to make sure that you--someone with a relatively low post count--knew who you were asking for the factual basis behind his view. Precisely what I was doing Utah. Thank you sir!
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18 |
I didn't know that, but it is exactly how I've treated my new Hart barrel on my McWhorter rifle. I think I've cleaned it twice in 120 rounds.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,675 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,675 Likes: 3 |
The Majority on this web site cling to JB's coat tails because they have no opinion of their own thinking she is a goddess of some sort, BARREL BREAK-IN does help in some cases, some claim there can be barrel damage done with break-in are idiots that dont use a rod guide.
Use a rod guide, bore tech eliminator and you will notice a positive difference doing a barrel break-in
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,986 Likes: 27
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,986 Likes: 27 |
I don't recall anyone mentioning barrel damage, only that the practice was generally a waste of time, and that the ordinary process of shooting and cleaning would eventually have the same result. Break-in just makes it happen faster.
We rely on John's expertise because he does this stuff full-time, for a living, so what he says is based on experience, not mouse clicking. He's generous with his time and advice and puts up with a lot of crap from snarky wannabes with (mostly) patience and good humor.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,100 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,100 Likes: 20 |
I had my model 70 rebarreled in 264 by Pac-Nor. It came back with a pamphlet detailing a specific break-in procedure, and included a bottle of "Witch's Brew" solvent/cleaner for the job.
This is not to say that any components or battel life was wasted in the break in procedure. A certain amount of bullets and powder were consumed in load development. Shooting was interupted as recomended by the manufacturer and the barrel scrubbed.
This barrel is as accurate as any I have ever shot.
Would it have been as accurate without the extensive cleaning procedure?
We will never know.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,287 Likes: 15
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,287 Likes: 15 |
The Majority on this web site cling to JB's coat tails because they have no opinion of their own thinking she is a goddess of some sort, BARREL BREAK-IN does help in some cases, some claim there can be barrel damage done with break-in are idiots that dont use a rod guide.
Use a rod guide, bore tech eliminator and you will notice a positive difference doing a barrel break-in And you notice this difference with the same rifle? BTW, what you said above about JB is Horseschitt with a capital H. People respect his opinions because he puts in the work to really understand the science behind things like "barrel break-in" and he knows what he's talking about.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,241 Likes: 31
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,241 Likes: 31 |
Have had severa people woith reading comprehension problems say that I claim barrel break-in "doesn't work." I've never said or written that it doesn't work--except perhaps with very rough factory barrels, where 1000 rounds of shoot-and-clean won't help nearly as much as a few rounds of fire-lapping, or instead simply installing Dyna-Tek Bore Coat.
Instead my point is that if you clean any good barrel down to bare steel between range sessions the same thing eventually happens as with the one-shot-clean method.
Have also never written that break-in harms bores. However, there was a nitwit gunsmith in Idaho a few years ago who claimed that if you didn't turn over your rifle to him, allowing him to break-in a barrel properly (that word again) with his super-secret technique, then the barrel would ruined forever. Dunno how his "marketing campaign" worked out!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,447
Posts18,528,813
Members74,033
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
