Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Question for cast lead shooters

I picked up some Missouri Bullet Company .356 diameter, 125 grain SWC 18 BHN to reload for a 9mm .

I loaded up 5 rounds starting at 3.6 grains of Titegroup in CCI brass and Federal small pistol primers test fire showed 3 out 5 bullets keyholed and some leading. I worked up to 3.9 grains .1 grains at a time and had the same issue.

My question is am I just out of luck with these bullets or do I need to use another powder that will bump the base a little harder to get a seal?

I didn't chrono the loads, but the brass isn't getting ejected as far as the factory ammo we've been shooting.

I'm not familiar with Titegroup in my 9mm shooting, but bumping that load up might be the first place to start. Then move to other powders.

Not sure what you are shooting these loads out of but I have a Ruger SR9C in 9mm that struggles with any cast bullet while two of my 9mm Glocks with factory barrels shoot the same reload just fine. Might be your pistol.

These are the first 9mm rounds I've loaded. Most of my reloading experience has been rifle ammo.
Pistol wise my experience with cast bullets is limited to 45 ACP and was stress free.

I'll try some of the same loads through a different pistol and see what happens.

Thanks.

Barrel smoothness or roughness, bullet lube, quality of the cast bullet, etc all play a part in cast bullet accuracy.

18 brinell will not be easy to bump up. I would try a .357 diameter first if the Lube is up to snuff.

May I ask what brand pistol you firing them in?

CZ P09 initially and a Beretta 92 to see if it was gun related. 3.6 grains in the Beretta tumbled also.

I'm shooting 125 cast and coated with 4.5gr of Tite Group. It's a little to stiff for target ammo so the next batch will be loaded with an even 4grs.
Haven't noticed a tumbler yet and most of this is shot out of a Shield.

I'm wondering if the charge is to light but without running it over the chronograph I was a little hesitant to go higher. If the wind cooperates I'll get some shot over the chronograph in a day or two.

Have you slugged your barrel to see what size it is? Your bullets may be too small.

More powder.

Add crimp.

Checking your scale might not be a bad idea.




Travis

hodgden's online guide shows 3.6 as minimum, MAX as 4.0 grains.
. might try increasing the powder a little bit.
a 9mm is .355 and typically you would go one over, so .356 would be about on the money.
The brinell of 18 seems pretty hard to me, i would try a softer lead alloy it might not be obliferating if i spelled that right correctly.

Thanks for all the pointers, I'll some of them a try over the next couple of days. I have some 124 grain plated to try also and if they shoot good I might just set the cast bullets aside for later.

FWIW when I googled it I found quite a few references to Missouri bullets tumbling. A couple guys said it stopped when they tried a faster burning powder.

M of the barrel is indeed .355" and the bullet is .356" then there is no reason to obturate.

Faster than titegtoup? Maybe Bullseye.

I would try running the charge weight up a bit. If that does not work, you might buy a pot, a mould, and ten pounds of pure lead to add to the mix and recast those bullets a bit softer.

Shot some today over the chronograph. The only faster powder I have on hand is Red Dot so I tried 4.0 and 4.1 grains of it

4.0 gave me around 1115 fps and keyholed, 4.1 was around 1135 and still keyholed.

The 124 plated shot good so I'll work up a load with that
and mess around with the cast bullets more later. All I need is a good shooting load that does about 1050-1100.

Again thanks for the suggestions.

Many folks have issues with Titegroup and cast bullets, and I don't use TG, but I don't think that is your problem. You could try a slower powder in the Unique range that is more correct for the 9mm, but again...I wouldn't pick that bullet design, but if it were the right size, keyholing shouldn't be an issue, and if it is, I don't expect changing powders to fix it.

Likely the bullet is undersized for your bore. The solution here is to pick a better bullet design that is sized correctly to your bore.

I haven't slugged the bores of all my 9mm pistols, but of the few I did, NONE of them were .355.. all were .357+!

I size my 9mm bullets to .357.

I never had a problem with keyholing with any 9mm bullet, even .356 ones, but I haven't tried that design you have. I use the larger diameter because they are more accurate.

Missouri Bullets offers coated bullets in good designs. I like this design. . 147 FP

But you have to specify that you want them sized to .357 diameter. You can also ask them for a softer alloy...11-12 Brinnell is more than ok.

But this bullet from Palmetto Projectiles is all you need and is inexpensive. 125 RN

Also these guys IbejiHeads offer the 147 FP and other good designs in .357 and different colors too. ibejiheads

Notice that both of those named suppliers offer .357 bullets as a standard option!

Bayou Bullets offers 135gr RN 135 RN

And the 147FP 147 FP

Bayou Bullets is good to go, but you have to special order the .357 diameter and ask them about delivery time before you order.

Plated bullets sound like a good idea, but only work in low pressure loads and have issues with keyholing and jacket separation if you overcrimp them. They will work ok and are clean, but since I started with coated bullets I don't shoot plated...there's no point.

I mostly don't bother with lubed lead any more in auto pistols, and only use coated bullets either factory or my own coatings, or jacketed.

It's either or...with either of those two, there is NO leading, and very little cleaning as a bonus.

Stick with bullet designs and makers that are proven to work for 90% of the serious shooters out there that put a lot of lead downrange, and you won't waste any more of your time trying stuff that doesn't work as well.

Thanks for all the links. That Palmetto bullet looks like it will do the trick for what I want to accomplish. If I can get about 1050-1070 FPS with a 124-125 and decent accuracy and reasonable price I'll be happy. Inexperience and lack of research bit me in the a$$.

two other things i should have mentioned, and one poster brought up is you didn't mention the gun being used. While .355 is technicaly the diameter, they are all over the map depending on who and when was made.
I have loaded a lot of cast bullets without issues in 9mm fired through a lot of milsurp and others, and have for the most part used ww231 or hp38, the same stuff. All at about 1050fps.

I tried them in a CZ P09 and a Beretta 92(only 5 out of a Beretta). I have to melt down some fishing weights in order to slug the barrel. I plan on doing that tomorrow.

Sportsman Warehouse didn't have much in the way of powder when I bought the Titegroup. I'll see if they have either of those 2 powders next time I head up that way.

I should of done more research, but I'm learning something new so it's all good.

The diameter of the throat should drive your bullet diameter selection, not the groove diameter. My first thought was your bullets are too hard. I would find (or make) some much softer, say around 10-12bhn, and try them. A hard bullet won't obdurate as well to fill the grooves and as such will contribute to leading via gas cutting as well. I had similar problems with my home made cast bullets in .45 and 9mm way back when I was starting out. I insisted on using hard as nails lead alloys and got crummy accuracy and bad leading. That all went away when I softened up the alloy considerably and started sizing for throat diameter, and life was good.