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I had an opportunity this year to hunt Black Bear in Kentucky. Trouble is, the geniuses in Frankfort put a minimum bore diameter requirement of 270 or above in the regulations for this species.
All good and fine, I suppose, but as I was getting ready to get packed for the hunt, I realized that I seem to be pretty well stocked for rifles from .22, .24, .25 and .26 caliber.
Anyway, I made do with a 30-06 that I haven't hunted with for many moons, but after seeing pics of a couple of bears that had been on the property we were hunting, I had the impression that a rifle in the 338 to 375 realm might not be out of the question.
So, I really like the express sights on the Ruger African, and was thinking about the 375 Ruger pretty closely. Then I ran up on the guide model. I don't care for the brake, but it can be readily removed. I like the barrel band for the front sling swivel, and prefer it to placement of the African model, which has it in the forward part of the stock.
The other thing about the Guide rifle is that it is chambered for the 30-06, 338 Winchester Mag, and 375 Ruger.
That opens another can of worms for me to ponder.
This rifle will fill a slot for me that includes black bear and hogs. For the hogs, I'd like to be able to run the open sights. For the bear, I'll likely mount a 4x or so, in QR rings.
I am now leaning more toward the 338 or the '06. I'm thinking the 210 partition in the 338 and the 200 or 220 grain partition in the '06.
Of course the '06 will hold 4 in the belly and the 338 only 3. The barrel of this rifle is 20".
I'd appreciate your input.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Tracker
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'06 will drop any bear that walks, especially in Kentucky.
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Campfire Ranger
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I know that Shoemaker has been a fan of the cartridge for even the big brownies.
I suspicion that I would get the most use out of an '06, although I have never been a huge fan of the cartridge. I certainly respect its' capabilities.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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'06 will drop any bear that walks, especially in Kentucky. a BIG +1 on this Joel....no need to beat yourself up...the '06 will do anything..... Ive never seen a black bear I wouldn't shoot with a .243....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Back in my Minnesota days, I hunted with an 06...
That was before my handloading days....
but I pretty much just picked up factory 220 grain RN loads, after hunting season for cheap...
to this day, in either my 06 or 300 Mag needs, a good old 220 grain Round Nose is still what I will be loading...
They seem to go right thru both sides of anything I ever shot with them... and the insides looked like they have been stirred with a chain saw...
Ain't a thing walking in the lower 48 that I would feel undergunned with an 06 and a 220 grain RN in it...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Ranger
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Back in my Minnesota days, I hunted with an 06...
Had to laugh, John. That opening line reminded me of "Little Big Man". I remember him telling Wild Bill Hickock that he had killed some ridiculous number of people and then said "Tweren't true. I was a terrible liar in my Gunfighter days." Here is something that I have found to be the truth, based on the small number of whitetails I have shot with the 30-06. It should be a fine Elk rifle. I'm thinking that bear will fit into that category as well.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I'm involved in a bear camp in Saskatchewan so I feel I can speak here. My comments here are in regards to what I consider a big bear , 300+ lbs. We kill some pretty big bears up there , all our bears are weighted on a scale . In the last 3 years we have taken 8 bears over 400 lbs., and many more between 300 & 400 lbs. that's pretty big for a spring Bear. My last one was 454 lbs.
Black bears are easy to kill but really hard to knock off there feet unless you hit some supporting structure. Hit one in a non vital area and your in for a long tough track. For this reason all our baits , rifle or bow , are less than 20 yards. Believe it or not we have had rifle hunters miss and wound bears. Our bears tend to carry a lot of fat, they don't bleed very much unless you really open them up. Run an arrow thru them and there usually within 20-100 yards. Rifle or bow if they're much over 100 yards something is not right. Of course there are always exceptions. we see an amazing array of armament, one guy even showed up with a Browning Long Range Hunter 300 WSM with a 6x18 Leupold knowing the shot would be less than 20 yards. Maybe that was the only gun he owned , I don't know. The gun with the most 1 shot kills the last 3 years? 7mm08 with plain vanilla bullets 150 or 154 gr. We like to have our hunters use a 270 or up, although I would be ok with the 25-06 or 257 WBY. with a heavier premium bullet. If you are going to use a standard cup core bullet we like to see it a heavy for caliber. If you are going to to shoot one of the magnums 7mm or up use a tough bullet. Most of our male hunters shoot 30-06, 7 mm mags. and 300 mags. I am a rifle loony so I'm always trying a different gun or bullet . I've used 338 Win , 338 RUM ,375 Ruger and 45-70 these rifles are way more powerful than necessary and if you choose one make sure you are comfortable shooting it. Amazingly , we had a guy miss a bear at 10 yards with a 30-06 . Back at camp he missed a paper plate 2 out of 3 shots at 15 yards another guy shot the gun and planted 2 shots dead center in the plate. After that everybody shoots before they hunt. The 338 Win With a 210 partion is a fantastic choice for Bear. If you want to own the Guide Gun go ahead and get it , that short little 20" barrel is really handy , but you don't need it for black bear your 30-06 with 180 on up is fine. If you go less than 180 just make sure its a good deep penetrating bullet. that's my opinion. Hope this helps KH.
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Maybe CrimsonTide just wanted an excuse to get a new rifle!? ;-)
But i must agree with the other fellows, a .30-06 will do just fine.
But a .338-08, .358Win, 338-06, 35 Whelen or 9,3x62 would aslo work... ;-)
Regards, Mike
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm involved in a bear camp in Saskatchewan so I feel I can speak here. My comments here are in regards to what I consider a big bear , 300+ lbs. We kill some pretty big bears up there , all our bears are weighted on a scale . In the last 3 years we have taken 8 bears over 400 lbs., and many more between 300 & 400 lbs. that's pretty big for a spring Bear. My last one was 454 lbs.
Black bears are easy to kill but really hard to knock off there feet unless you hit some supporting structure. Hit one in a non vital area and your in for a long tough track. For this reason all our baits , rifle or bow , are less than 20 yards. Believe it or not we have had rifle hunters miss and wound bears. Our bears tend to carry a lot of fat, they don't bleed very much unless you really open them up. Run an arrow thru them and there usually within 20-100 yards. Rifle or bow if they're much over 100 yards something is not right. Of course there are always exceptions. we see an amazing array of armament, one guy even showed up with a Browning Long Range Hunter 300 WSM with a 6x18 Leupold knowing the shot would be less than 20 yards. Maybe that was the only gun he owned , I don't know. The gun with the most 1 shot kills the last 3 years? 7mm08 with plain vanilla bullets 150 or 154 gr. We like to have our hunters use a 270 or up, although I would be ok with the 25-06 or 257 WBY. with a heavier premium bullet. If you are going to use a standard cup core bullet we like to see it a heavy for caliber. If you are going to to shoot one of the magnums 7mm or up use a tough bullet. Most of our male hunters shoot 30-06, 7 mm mags. and 300 mags. I am a rifle loony so I'm always trying a different gun or bullet . I've used 338 Win , 338 RUM ,375 Ruger and 45-70 these rifles are way more powerful than necessary and if you choose one make sure you are comfortable shooting it. Amazingly , we had a guy miss a bear at 10 yards with a 30-06 . Back at camp he missed a paper plate 2 out of 3 shots at 15 yards another guy shot the gun and planted 2 shots dead center in the plate. After that everybody shoots before they hunt. The 338 Win With a 210 partion is a fantastic choice for Bear. If you want to own the Guide Gun go ahead and get it , that short little 20" barrel is really handy , but you don't need it for black bear your 30-06 with 180 on up is fine. If you go less than 180 just make sure its a good deep penetrating bullet. that's my opinion. Hope this helps KH.
KHH, Just wanted you to know that I absolutely appreciate you taking the time to write up your experiences from bear camp. I think you reiterate what I have found to be the case in most every other circumstance. Misses don't count. I am thinking that the 30-06 will be the route I go. I've already got dies and brass will be easy to find. I think I'll pick up some 220 grain RNs, and if I'm feeling squirrelly, I may end up loading some 220 partitions for next bear season.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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Maybe CrimsonTide just wanted an excuse to get a new rifle!? ;-)
But i must agree with the other fellows, a .30-06 will do just fine.
But a .338-08, .358Win, 338-06, 35 Whelen or 9,3x62 would aslo work... ;-)
Regards, Mike
Pistol Mike, If the Ruger African was still available in 9.3x62, I'd really be torn. In many ways, you are right. It's just another excuse for another rifle, but if all goes well, Jr. will end up with them some day, so I want him to inherit something he will get use out of too. Thanks for posting. CT
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Outfitter
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CrimsonTide,
If you have a .270 I have a 100 box of Remington 150gr core-lokt round nose bullets.
Doc
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Campfire Ranger
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They made plenty of Ruger Alaskans in 375 Ruger with a nice stainless 20" barrel.
If you ever plan to have the rifle pull some bigger duty, such as Alaska or Africa, then I'd get the 375 Ruger and have some fun with it.
Why bother with another 30-06?
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Campfire Ranger
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Crimson Tide, hard for me to read your post. Can't tell if you would like to get a new rifle or not. If you would prefer not to put out the money for a new rifle then stick with your 30-06 and use the 200 grain Nosler partitions. That will handle anything on the continent. If you would like (justify) a new rifle, see if you can borrow a 338WM before you buy it. It is more than some folks appreciate. I've been using one for years and really appreciate what it does. It gives you a tad bit of lattitude when it comes to power. The 375 is a great caliber and folks can shoot those more times than they can the 338WM. Not sure but it seems to push more than the sharp recoil of the 338. I can sit down and shoot a couple of boxes of ammo with my 375 H&H with out an issue. But I've used my 338 more just because all my 338's are stainless and my 375 is blue. Either will more than handle a black bear.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
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ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS!
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New Member
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see if you can borrow a 338WM before you buy it. It is more than some folks appreciate.
Good advise! Or you could try a .358 Winchester, then you get a bigger caliber with heavier bullets but still with a "nice" recoil. Some reading: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/12/07/358-winchester-kicking/Regards, Mike
Last edited by PISTOLMIKE; 12/26/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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These folks are steering you the wrong way. As a famous gun writer once penned, "use more guns." I have been to Kentucky and I know for certain you need a minimum of a 338 to accomplish what you want to.
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Campfire Ranger
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CrimsonTide,
If you have a .270 I have a 100 box of Remington 150gr core-lokt round nose bullets.
Doc
Doc, There is a .270 in the house, but I didn't have anything loaded heavier than 130's. Shoot me a PM and and we'll see if I can trade you out of those RN's.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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CaribouJack,
The truth is, I am just looking for my next rifle. I do already have another 30-06, but it is a Browning BAR. I much prefer the simplicity of a bolt rifle for hunting.
I have some experience with the 338, having owned one a few years ago. I treated it much like a 44 magnum, which is to say that I rarely loaded it to maximum levels. Generally I shot 200 grain bullets at about 2800 or so. In that respect, I can appreciate the latitude the 338 affords.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Jan 2014
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These folks are steering you the wrong way. As a famous gun writer once penned, "use more guns." I have been to Kentucky and I know for certain you need a minimum of a 338 to accomplish what you want to. Well, there can also be too much of a good thing (at least for the shooter)! And we don't know what CrimsonTide preferes when it comes to rifles. Acording to himself he's pretty well stocked with rifles from .224 - .30. So a bigger bore would complete his battery some. A Ruger Guide Gun is a nice rifle but you should count on a stiff recoil, especially if you're just used to lighter calibers. But if you set to get a "big bore" you have to start somewhere! I started with a .375 H&H and it's not all that bad if you take it easy and practice a little but often. If you handload you can load down the practice loads so you don't hurt your self and start a bad flinching habit. We also have the nice and versatile .45/70 but CrimsonTide might not like leverguns? http://www.gunblast.com/Marlin-1895SBL.htmRuger Guide Gun review... http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-375GG.htmRegards, Mike
Last edited by PISTOLMIKE; 12/26/15.
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