Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles High dollar firearms

Here's a question. What makes rifles or shotguns worth the money we pay for them? I am on a kick to own a long barreled 45-70 lever gun. And can not believe the huge price tag associated with some of the options. Look at the Marlin 1885G, used you pay $400- $600. Now look at the 1885CB. Same everything except barrel and magazine length, and used they command $1000. Are we to believe Marlin has an extra $500 in parts and labor to manufacture the CB, I don't think so. Winchester seem to be the same way, if not worse. Don't misunderstand I'm not referring to collectibles, I'm referring to shooters meant to be enjoyed in the woods and on the range. Does supply and demand dictate this trend? Or do the buyers have more money than good sense? Please throw in your 2 cents, I'm interested to know if I'm the only one this bothers.

Same as anything else, supply and mostly, demand.

The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, also, unlike other countries, the states grab a chunk as well. Add to that the cost of mandated health insurance, liability insurance, and assorted other government regulations, and prices can't help but go up. Salaries have lagged a bit, but qualified people don't work cheaply.

The first gun I bought after I started working was a Browning Light Twelve A5 for which I paid $194.95 in Fair Trade dollars. I was making $95.50 per week at an entry-level union job. The guys in the top tier were pulling down about $150. Do the math. We're actually doing better these days when you look at prices compared to wages. In addition, there are a lot of functional, accurate rifles out there at ridiculous prices for those that just want to shoot or hunt on the cheap. Good used stuff, particularly "cult" guns, do command high prices as demand for them is high. Your 1895CB definitely qualifies for that, as do all the Marlin CB rifles.

Where we're losing out is on quality. Lots of stuff is being sold that fails to work properly. Price doesn't seem to be a determiner there; mid- to higher-end stuff and semi-customs seem to all have problems.

Assuming you are talking about new Winchester branded reproduction models: 1886 Deluxe Case Hardened Rifle ($1,740); 1886 Short Rifle ($1,340); Model 1873 in four configurations ($1,300 - $1,740); Model 1892 Large Loop Carbine ($1,260); Model 1892 Short Rifle ($1,070).

These rifles are manufactured by Miroku of Japan, the same manufacturer that made the Browning reproductions back in the 1980's. The factors effecting prices are numerous, including the rate of exchange; the declining value of the U.S. Dollar (I paid $578 for a new Browning 1886 Grade I .45-70 Rifle in 1987, today with inflation, that same rifle would sell for $1,208); transportation and import fees; retail markup; and all the regulatory compliance costs. Then there is cost distribution over a limited production run. That Browning 1886 Grade I was limited to 5,000 rifles if I recall.

Actually, the Winchester/Browning rifles produced by partner Miroku are of excellent quality, making them a reasonably priced alternative to the historical originals.

$1000 sounds like a lot but when you really look at inflation it isn't that much. This IMR 4350 powder was bought in the 80's I believe. That same powder costs $30 today! Guns really should be much more expensive but they are constantly reducing quality to keep the prices lower.

Good point.

When we start bitching about prices, we run the risk of getting flamed by the Brits and Austrailians who REALLY pay for stuff.

Those new 1873 look like real deals. Excellent quality, good triggers, and no safeties to mess up the lines. No doubt the steel is far superior and stronger than the originals too. One in .357 would be a dandy plinker and light game gun for someone that can see the sights.

I've owned two Miroku Brownings and everything about them was high class and well worth the money.

You pay more more for barrels with bigger holes in them.

One also has to factor in the rifle niche itself.

If there's not a lot of call for a certain model - it's probably only run once a year (Rem used to do this with lefties IIRC) and there's cost to swap production from bread and butter to a rifle that's not necessarily going out the door by the pallet load 6 days a week.

You pay for that too.

Up here we pay a premium for rifles and scopes.

Especially with a 30% difference in our dollar.

Though we pay at least 50-60% more for rifles and 70-80% more for scopes.

Doug at Cameraland was selling Minox scopes for $100.00 US, that same scope would be at least $275.00 to $300.00 Canadian.

With both Cabelas and Bass Pro established here you would think all we would pay is the difference in the dollar value.

Flyer

If my memory serves me corectly back in about 1988 I bought a new full size Bronco SUV for 15k, a marlin 336 30/30 from Service Merchandise on sale for $175 and I was paying $35 a month for my health insurance with 2000 deductable. My new suv this year will run me $55k, I bought a marlin 444 levergun last year for $700 and my health insurance will be $480 per month with $6000 deductable. So I guess if I was to be bothered by higher prices I wouldnt limit it to gun makers.

We pay a bit more for propellant (which is a bit galling when the propellant is made here but cheaper there), and projectiles, stuff like that. For firearms the difference is not that much though, aside from regulatory embuggerances.

Your 1895 CB @$1000 US used is not going to be much dearer here. Looking today on usedguns.com.au for example there's a new (old stock) one for roughly $1298 US, and there'd probably be some room to haggle there. I sold my 1895, in good nick and with mounts, dies and ammo for the equivalent of $547 US and thought I did well out of the deal a couple of years ago, but you'd pay a bit more for a CB version.

FWIW though I wouldn't have thought $1000 US was a "high dollar" rifle. Here that's two weeks of the minimum wage. I think rifles are cheaper than they've ever been, when compared to earnings.

As with anything, it is worth what people are willing to pay. If Marlin is moving the rifles at that price, I fail to see what the problem is, regardless of what it costs them to make them.

I bought a brand new 1972 SS396 RS Camaro for $3600, so there!

I've never regretted the money I've spent for good guns, just the ones I've sold foolishly.

When I got my 1st job out of college in '70, I was making $7500/yr. I bought my 1st new car, a 71 Chevy Nova, for about l/3 of a year's wages. Whatever you're making now, what kind of car can you buy with 1/3 of it?

tshatto - the simple answer to your inquiry is Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. Marlin gets the high $$ for the .45/70 CB because they can. Has nothing to do with parts costs, labor etc... Homesteader

Homesteader I think you hit the nail on the head.
Rock Chuck I would have to settle on a used beater

Buy the rifle you want for the going price. You'll be happier than if you settled for something less expensive.

Supply and demand for used guns.

American Rifleman (I think) had an article a few months back about the current inflated price of Colt snake revolvers. There was an interesting chart that showed the prices over the years of various guns in same condition. Some guns have appreciated considerably and some have become cheaper. Hard to say, but the older we get, the fewer people will be buying lever actions and the older marlins will become cheaper, if you can wait another 20 years or so.

My 1967 Pontiac GTO convertible was $1250 when I bought it second-hand in 1972. It was Nave blue with a 6.5 Litre (396 cu. inch) engine, Muncie 4-speed transmission, Hurst shifter, posi-track rear-end, hood mounted tach, glass pack mufflers and a white rag top. Back then gas was only $0.25 per gallon but, being in the service, I couldn't afford to drive it 3 weeks of the month. Sold it when Uncle Sam sent me on an extended vacation in SE Asia. Should have kept it.

My guns are a mix of new and used with more used than new. The most expensive were a custom 6.5-06AI on an Interarms Mark X action and a semi-custom .338 Win Mag built from factory parts and a barrel that had been fluted and apparently shortened.

What makes any of my rifles worth what I paid for them is what they do for me. A very nice, second-hand Ruger #1 in .280 Rem was a .5" shooter with multiple loads but it was too nice to hunt with. It got sold and I purchased a Ruger All Weather Hawkeye in .280 Rem instead. The extra money I got for the #1 also helped fund a Ruger Scout in .308 Win. Both of the new rifles are shooters as well and I'm very happy with the end result.

A few weeks back I was in Kansas City and saw a very nice Lexus for $1,400 at the Bullet Hole gun shop. I forget the chambering but it was of interest. Unfortunately, the Lexus was like the #1 --worth every penny to someone but too nice for me to hunt with. It is probably still on the shelf if anyone is interested.

All combined I've spent several years looking for good Marlin rifles. Got my first, a Model 375 in .375 Win made in 1980, in 2001. It was in pristine condition and cost me $350. At the time I felt that was somewhat high but I wanted it. No regrets at all. That rifle whetted my appetite for a .45-70 or .444. In late 2002, after two years of searching, I found a Marlin 1895 .45-70 made in 2000 for $249 and change. The best prices I had been able to find were $400 and up and often those rifles were in less than satisfactory condition. The one I found was also in like-new condition and when I saw it I knew immediately It would be going home with me. Three years later I finally completed my quest for a .30-30 when I found a 1989 Marlin 336CS in excellent condition for $250, way under what others in much worse condition were going for. Had the prices been much higher I'd probably still be without any Marlins.

When I was a kid I had an Ithaca Model 94 lever-action .22. I let it get away and regretted doing so for many years. After about three years of searching the gun shows I found a really nice one for $105 - less than half what some people were asking for Model 94's that were beat to hell. I would have gladly paid much more for that rifle. These days I mostly use it to shoot clay pigeons at 100 yards using the iron sights.

The only regrets I have are not buying several rifles when I had the chance. A beautifully customized German 8mm Mauser for $225 comes to mind. Still kicking myself over that one. Another is a boat paddle/stainless Ruger MKII in .270 where the seller and I were $15 apart in price. Went back the next day to buy it and someone else was filling out the paperwork on it. Stupid, stupid, stupid.