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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
To be fair he repeatedly referred to it as "his grass".
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
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To be fair he repeatedly referred to it as "his grass".
He also referred to it as "his ranch". No, it's "his lease". My wife's grandfather used to lease a couple hundred acres of land for farming from another landowner. He never called that piece "his farm". he always called it, "My lease".
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
To be fair he repeatedly referred to it as "his grass".
He also referred to it as "his ranch". No, it's "his lease". My wife's grandfather used to lease a couple hundred acres of land for farming from another landowner. He never called that piece "his farm". he always called it, "My lease". I appreciate your post and the historical perspective it offered. I also appreciate your reference to case law. This issue is clearly complicated and I would like to understand it further. It seems reasonable to contend that leased grazing land alone does not constitute a "ranch". Further, the notion of a "ranch" is generally thought of as including an amalgam of resources purposely gathered toward the raising of livestock. Grazing land (leased or otherwise) would be one of these resources. Other resources integral to a "ranch" could be: access to water sufficient to sustain humans and live stock, livestock, barns, accessory structures, a house(s), tools, implements, roads/trails, fences, gates, etc. I'd argue, in the case of your grandfather's leased agricultural land, that although he didn't own it, in most contexts it would be reasonable and appropriate to included it in the spectrum of things that constituted his farm. You posting from Wyoming and me from Massachusetts, our quibble over the notion of "Farm" and "Ranch" and the relationship of land to them has me thinking. Namely, that an examination of the colloquial vernacular used in ranching communities could shed light on what relationship "leases" have to the notion of ranch and what it's historical equivalents have been. The fate of the reality these vernaculars represent and has represented is what's being hashed out in courts. To do this fairly, the rancher's language and the relationships it describes should have been well translated into legal terms. I'm guessing this didn't happen. Then, over the last 80 years, the face to face, give and take, hand shake dealt, sidebar deals and the people who made them are all gone. These relationships and the agreements that came out of them tempered a law written by outsiders. The people in these communities have been left at the mercy of outsiders. Outsiders who who might not have the best interests of locals in mind.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,192 |
Thanks to Isaac for a clear and reasoned reply to my question. It will be easier if I have to vote for Trump later on to know that someone here gave some thought to who the man is.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,819 Likes: 4 |
all of this grazing on public land thing...
cattle are eating stuff that is pretty much not used otherwise, that will just wither away, and new seeds will produce new plants...
pretty renewable... and the feds aren't really selling it to anyone for any other reason...
it use to bother me that these ranchers get to let their cattle graze on Federal land, until I really thought about it.. and came up what are they hurting or who are they stealing from...
to me, its like, if I dip a cup into a creek and drink the water, have I stolen water from our federal government or the public trust? or does that start at 2 cups, 3?
In my opinion these protesters were harmless in the long run.. bunch of guys with a gripe... and the Malheur Refuge was a poor choice to voice it and make a stand over.. 60 miles south of a small town out in the middle of nowhere...
just west of Riley ( a cross roads), which is 17 miles west of Burns, there is a sign on Hwy 20.. no gas for next 99 miles.... turn south on Hwy 395 South, there is another sign.. no Gas for that many miles or more...down to Lakeview...
This is a place where there are more coyotes than cows out there... and 500 sage brush plants for every ONE blade of grass....
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
Seafire, it's hard to sell them corn to feed their cows, if they're getting grass for free.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,926 |
They have done nothing but put a bad light on responsible public land permit holders.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,244 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,244 Likes: 3 |
As all these Oregon Occupiers threads are running, I think this video needs to be shown on its own. Ask yourself what kind of man Lavoy Finicum is was. If you were to leave your family with this man, how do you feel he would treat them? Is this the kind of man you would trust with your favorite rifle? Would you expect to get your truck back if you loaned it to him? I'll tell you, from what I see here I think the world is now poorer with him gone. I won't even touch on what I think of the people that would want him killed. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...E6BA06D6CB284704093AE6BA0&FORM=VIRE5 One things for sure with me. I'd trust a family man/rancher like Finnicum with my family or rifle way before I'd trust the gov't thug who killed him.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,841 |
I refrained from correcting an earlier post... "in vein" vs. in vain...maybe it is "rocket" science..."Doc......" maybe he was shooting up
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,930 |
So he's supporting that the land be returned the Native Americans based on natural law, right?
Selmer "Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?" - my 3-year old daughter
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
I'm just not buying it. "It" being that Lavoy Finicum wasn't a decent man. From what I've seen so far I can't make that judgement.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
So he's supporting that the land be returned the Native Americans based on natural law, right? Ive met more than a few indians, we did them a favor by taking their land... Sure they had a bad run for a while ..but now they have casinos
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,901 Likes: 11 |
They have done nothing but put a bad light on responsible public land permit holders. You have to pay your bills, pretty simple concept.
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Joined: Mar 2012
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,519 |
all of this grazing on public land thing...
cattle are eating stuff that is pretty much not used otherwise, that will just wither away, and new seeds will produce new plants...
pretty renewable... and the feds aren't really selling it to anyone for any other reason...
it use to bother me that these ranchers get to let their cattle graze on Federal land, until I really thought about it.. and came up what are they hurting or who are they stealing from...
to me, its like, if I dip a cup into a creek and drink the water, have I stolen water from our federal government or the public trust? or does that start at 2 cups, 3?
In my opinion these protesters were harmless in the long run.. bunch of guys with a gripe... and the Malheur Refuge was a poor choice to voice it and make a stand over.. 60 miles south of a small town out in the middle of nowhere...
just west of Riley ( a cross roads), which is 17 miles west of Burns, there is a sign on Hwy 20.. no gas for next 99 miles.... turn south on Hwy 395 South, there is another sign.. no Gas for that many miles or more...down to Lakeview...
This is a place where there are more coyotes than cows out there... and 500 sage brush plants for every ONE blade of grass.... Water? Could be stealing it from a rancher, a farmer 1,000 miles away, or a municipal utility. Out west, every drop is owned by someone. Heck, in Colorado , you can't even have a rain barrel because that water "belongs" to someone else. smh
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,275 |
Don't seem like a man that needed killing..
g
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!
"A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
I refrained from correcting an earlier post... "in vein" vs. in vain...maybe it is "rocket" science..."Doc......" maybe he was shooting up You guys are killin' me...
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,414 |
do ya'll know they don't teach cursive writing in school anymore, everything these days is keyboard input and print. so yes grammar went down the hole, including me, I failed English and writing in school, but I make a good living regardless
J Simoneaud
Supper's ready!! you have 2 choices, Eat or Don't eat.
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,311 Likes: 9 |
Don't seem like a man that needed killing..
g Plenty do, but they all walk. This man was killed because whites don't burn cities to the ground. Bout time we did, for our own protection.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
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