Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The 30'06 is FAR superior to the .308, Headhunter....

Scott...Great Joke! I just cut and pasted it in an email and sent it to all my friends...some of whom are major-league computer nerds! Hilarious. Justin

.270 vs .280? <BR>I own both in different rifles. The .280 is an accurized Ruger 1B and the .270 is an out of the box, plus new Timney trigger, Model 77 MK II Ruger bolt in all-weather profile. No contest that the .280 shoots better. These comparisons always come apart on such arbitrary factors. An intersting but not definitive test would be same gun, same production run, two calibers. <BR>What led me to the .280 in the first place was Jim Carmichael article in Outdoor Life. He was an acolyte of O'Connor -- the original sponsor of the .270 among the major writers. Carmichael had just ordered his first ever fully custom rifle and was afraid to tell his mentor that he bypassed the .270 for the then-new .280. O'Connor finally floored him by advising him to go with the .280 as "It's a better caliber". <BR>I've never had a single reason to regret my decision on the .280. No deer has walked a step from contact with it. Hope the .270 works as well in the rain this season. 1B

I can say without doubt, that based on exhaustive army ordnance tests of the .30-06 and the 7.62 and the results of thousands, if not millions of rounds fired in matches, that the average .308 is unquestionably more accurate than the average .30-06 and that applies to average shooters as well as anybody. Their groups will be somewhat smaller with the .308 than with the .30-06 ON AVERAGE. Now, whether that makes a difference to someone in their hunting rifle decision is a personal choice and the accuracy differences are not all that significant at normal ranges and, may, in the opinion of some individuals be more than offset by the slight increase in velocity of the -06. Bottom line is shoot what you like and shoot it well and the game won't ever know the difference.<P>PS: If you haven't seen a Sako that "is a pig" then you haven't been around enough Sakos. Although I will be the first to say that their QC is better than most of the other major brands. Or was, until the Italians got involved, now we'll have to await future results.

JMHO, -- what made the 30-06 AND the 308 so popular was the advantage of surplus amunition from the governments. The 06 was top dog after WWII because millions of rounds were dumped to us, almost free, and gunmakers produced rifles to match, along with the Springfields and Endfields through different programs. That was before the government started not trusting the general population. The NRA had the job of training Americans to shoot and safety with firearns. When the NATO cartridge,(308), came out it began to change what people shot because of, cheap surplus ammo, now we are into the 223 thing. If it's cheap, available in quanity, the smiths and factorys along with the rag writers will make it popular. Heck, all rifles kill in the right situation, I would venture to say more deer have been killed with the lowly 22LR than any other caliber. Reason, poaching goes on all year, every night, every where, close range, quiet, fast, efficent. Ask any warden or rancher,farmer, heck, they keep their freezer filled whenever needed. This question of what's better is moot point when it comes to really killing, but does make conversation. Fire away!! -- no

I am an 06 fan...and while I believe it is superior to the 308 I do not feel it is FAR SUPERIOR except....at longer ranges and heavy boned or thick skinned game. Afterall this IS the BIG GAME forum and not the bench rest or sniper rifle 600yd brotherhood forum...so I think we must keep it in context of hunting use rather than just accuracy. If that was the case then there are far more accurate rounds than both of them but at bullet weights that are not feasible for anything except varmints and paper targets at those ranges....so let me begin...<BR>I might also question the accuracy difference with modern loads in the 06 without even going into handloads. Both are good with the 06 being a better large game or long range round. Here are some other reasons though why I would recommend a 30-06 over a 308 to a friend:<P>-over 40 types of domestic ammo available over the shelf and many can be found in even the most remote mountain town in Idaho or smallest hardware store in Alaska...so availability is one plus in my book.<P>-bullet ranges from 55 to 220 grains will cover anything in N America and possibly the world with good shot placement and moderate ranges...especially with the awesome bullets available in factory clothing whether it is normandy, speer, nosler, etc...<P>-in a good bolt action or single shot it will group less than 1.50 inches if the shooter does his part and has any ability at all...but not many can shoot accurately enough even off a bench to see sub-MOA accuracy without sandbags, rifle ransoms or tricked out weapons...even on calm days...but that is benchrest shooting and not hunting which is what we are talking about. And since the average kill zone of big game run from 6 inches to nearly 10 inches... .75 and 1.5 is of no consequence.<P>So for the non-reloader I recommend the 30-06...Federals 180gr Nosler Partition hits with around 1600 foot pounds of punch at 300 yds...drops 6 inches with 250 (10" with 200) zero and most experienced riflemen can handle the recoil. On sighting range that is about 2-2.5" at 100yds for 200 yd zero...and 3" for 250 yd zero with most rifles and ammunition.<P>For a reloader I might still offer the '06 if anything larger than mule deer were the quarry or the ranges were over 200 yds for even big bodied whitetails. A 200 grain Nosler Partition maintains about 2100-2200 ft lbs at 300 yds....which is the same as any 180 grain 300 Win Mag factory load!!! This will also decrease the drop at 300 for 200yd zero to around 8 inches...but that is why I go with a 250 zero...nothing to think about and it would have to be a calm day and a good sized animal for me to shoot over 250 yds...with 300 being my maximum...no **** range on anything except paper or rocks. This zero lets you forget bullet drop completely...and all you have to worry about is squeezing the trigger...and it retains more than enough energy down range to drop a huge bull elk.<P>No I am not a range-bum or anything...just have shot the 06 since I was old enough to hunt with a firearm alone...nearly 26 years. Plus I have read a lot from Rick Jamison, Jack O Connor, and Clay Harvey...and even Carmichael...with Jamison and Harvey being my most used experts for reference though I cringe at quoting experts since many are jaded by the free gear rather than giving honest results. Most of the data here I gave is from tests these two gentlemen conducted and from their own experiences...peppered with my own findings such as the bullet drop and zero setups for 200 or 250yd zeros. I like the old shoot the pipe setup...get a good 250 zero and anything from +4.5 inches to -8 inches is in my 12"pipe for elk or moose.....so I can hold dead on or slightly higher without any real figuring of distance other than knowing it is REAL FAR hahaha...and know the bullet will hit somewhere in that pipe no matter the distance out to 250 or 300 yds...and still drop them to their knees with a solid hit.<P>So, I would not say it is a far superior round but I would say you would be hard pressed to find a round that can do so much...with off the shelf ammunition...and that rivals the 300 yd capabilities of the 300 winchester magnum with a slight boost as a handloader. THIS MAY BE A MOOT POINT NOW THAT HORNADY OFFERS LIGHT/HEAVY MAGNUMS...SO NOW THE AVERAGE JOE CAN HAVE 300 WM RESULTS FROM THE OLD 30-06 WITHOUT HAVING TO BURN BRAINCELLS AND SPEND MONEY ON RELOADING GEAR.... Good luck and shoot straight if you are out after game this fall.<BR> [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]<BR> [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Scott, aka capt_e. I stand guilty as charged. I did say these boards had been too quiet lately. I see living in the south bay hasn't ruined your sense of humor.<BR> One positive aspect that hasn't been touched on here is where these two fine rounds fit in the scheme of things. I see the .308 as fitting in best as a lightweight, short rifle for those that love such things. It has a low expansion ratio, which means it loses very little when you shorten it's barrel. It also fits a short action, saving even more weight. The '06 does surprisingly well at the other end of the scale. One of our posters stated that he got something like 3043 fps, out his 27 inch custom '06 using Federal Hi-Energy ammo at his last range session. This did not go over well with the guys shooting .300 Win Mags. next to him. They were getting just under 2900 fps. with the same weight, 180 gr., bullets. Not only do we now have these fabulous bullets, but performance as well. In my own .308 sporter, I don't bother shooting any handloads. I just use my choice of Federal premiums for hunting, and mil. surp ammo for practice. Works for me. E

...with quality ammo like that produced by Federal or even Hornadys Light/Magnum loads...almost makes reloading more of a hobby rather than a necessity [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

308,30-06,270, hey man wasn,t so much arguing whem men chucked spears, cause if you missed it was definitely your fault, but some how today we,ve turned that around in our minds and with weapons that propels pills at fantastics speeds of 22500 fps are to slow for use, and 3000 is outdated. more complaing today ,so have we gone backwards, or just went and got to dam damanding.

hey that first number was suppose to be 2500 fps not 22500.

pa deerslayer, it's a good thing you quickly corrected that post. I was loading my gear into the truck and getting ready to drive to PA, negotiate a contract with you, and get the specs on this 22500 fps monster. I thought you had to be in space to get anything to go that fast!<P>Let's have some fun here, boys! I'll do you guys with inferior .308s a favor and pay for you to ship them all to me. Talus

yea, you know dude just read and you see how many shooters seem to be searching for ??? what was the name of that place??? oh yea shangrala, well gents it don,t exist in this life,a 308,3006, many others are more than adequate, if not how much more do you need than a 300 ultra ,or 7stw????. they are there pick one and have at it,but comparing the 308 to a 30-06 is like comparing apples.

Sitka has finally explained why I am so fond of my 8x57 M98's...not much time wasted on bullet selection, just load up a few rounds and get right to thumpin' deer. Thanks.<P>I get to chuckling when I read about SA vs. LA in cartridges of similar performance. Never bought into the jabber about a half inch or a few ounces of weight making a tinker's dam worth of difference when it comes to a deer rifle. Have not owned anything in 308 and ain't fixin' to rush out and buy one anytime soon, when I have a perfectly good '06, if I want to shoot something with a 30cal. bullet.

Why is all the discussion running between the 270 and the 280, when the 7mm-08 equals the 270 and does so with significantly less recoil and noise? <P>As popular as the 270 is, you would think it would have been used by a benchrest shooter somewhere. But I do not recall reading of one. In my experience, they are nowhere near as accurate as the myths would have you believe.<P><BR>headhunter<BR>I posted and ran, did not see your reply to my little joke, until now. Was not jabbing anyone in particular.<P>Tried your E-mail, but it appears to be blocked.<BR>art

Hornady 165gr. LM out of a Browning Stainless Stalker 30-06....Thor's Hammer.

What's cut and paste?

Sitka,<P>No problem, I guess that I was being a little too defensive. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Howdy, I'm kinda new here so allow me to add my 2 cents! I've owned both O6 and O8, loved em both, killed alot of deer with both. If I had to choose just one I would pick the O6. On the other hand if you handload, you could build a 308improved and have the best of both worlds shooting 110gr-180gr bullets. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] Mtn Hunter

Yawn!!

Best?????By far???!!<BR>Holy Toads!!!!!!!<BR>You're all WAAAAAY off base!<BR>The .300Savage will always be the best Deer cartridge,and the 7.5 Swiss will always outperform both of the two debated here.<BR>I would venture a guess that were proof in the pudding,that the old '06 has killed more critters(Humans excluded) than the .308 will in the next 25 years.<BR>The best one,is the one that fits the hunters sense of well being and confidence,and happens to be in his hands when the trophy of a lifetime is dancing 'neath the crosshairs!<BR>Where's 'ol Sonnie and a scathing diatribe concerning the .270 when ya need him? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<BR>Cheers all!<BR>E4E

Lets see now,<P>The 308 isn't any better then the 243.<BR>The 30-06 isn't any better then the 308<BR>The 300 Weatherby mag isn't any better then the 30-06<BR>The 338 isn't any better then the 300 Whby mag<BR>The 375 H&H isn't any better then the 338<P>Easy to see why we should ALL be using the 243 to kill anything on the planet, isn't it? [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Of course there are differences,,,,,choices, aren't they great?<P>Don [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]