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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
There's a horror story out there about every product that has been around long enough but on average Toyota and Miroku make excellent products. Miroku makes better than decent shotguns. Most of Brownings other guns I happen to like a great deal, especially the BPS shotguns and the Buckmark pistols. It is not a brand issue with me, nor a Made in Japan issue... it is a ridiculously poorly designed action with a ton of shortcuts. Love the "bedding" with hotmelt glue! . Funny how a very complicated design(and that it is) can work 24/7 while the rifle brand most idolized here has to be tweaked so it can shoot and function like it was supposed to when it came out of the factory. I have owned Abolts and X Bolts but no longer, it would take a lot of work to find someone that has had an issue with one. Not sure what your point is exactly... The bedding material is a small dollop of a heated plastic... I feel comfortable enough calling it hotmelt glue, YMMV. The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to. As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts. I have seen no fewer than three fail in the hands of 24hour posters. It would not take me more than a second to pick up my phone and find a half-dozen people that have had issues with an A-Bort. Again, YMMV.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
On second thought, why not send a PM to JJ Hack and ask him if he has ever seen an issue with an A-Bolt...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
There's a horror story out there about every product that has been around long enough but on average Toyota and Miroku make excellent products. Miroku makes better than decent shotguns. Most of Brownings other guns I happen to like a great deal, especially the BPS shotguns and the Buckmark pistols. It is not a brand issue with me, nor a Made in Japan issue... it is a ridiculously poorly designed action with a ton of shortcuts. Love the "bedding" with hotmelt glue! . Funny how a very complicated design(and that it is) can work 24/7 while the rifle brand most idolized here has to be tweaked so it can shoot and function like it was supposed to when it came out of the factory. I have owned Abolts and X Bolts but no longer, it would take a lot of work to find someone that has had an issue with one. Not sure what your point is exactly... The bedding material is a small dollop of a heated plastic... I feel comfortable enough calling it hotmelt glue, YMMV. The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to. As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts. I have seen no fewer than three fail in the hands of 24hour posters. It would not take me more than a second to pick up my phone and find a half-dozen people that have had issues with an A-Bort. Again, YMMV. I owned one I know what the [bleep] it was bedded with. I have never ever seen an issue with an abolt or Xbolt. You live in AK in a harsh climate not in the lower 48 where most of the weather is not that severe.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
On second thought, why not send a PM to JJ Hack and ask him if he has ever seen an issue with an A-Bolt... YOu know what you have railed and railed on Brownings forever. I bet you never even owned one.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924 |
Browning rifles do seem popular here in the south.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Browning rifles do seem popular here in the south. Absolutely they are very popular in the south and elsewhere. They are not my cup of tea but I never had one issue with Abolts or Xbolts I have owned. Workmanship first class, muzzle crown looks like it is done by hand. Perfect bedding for a factory rifle. They shoot extremely well and are consistent.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,924 |
I keep thinking I want to find an A-bolt Medallion in .270. Someday maybe?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
On second thought, why not send a PM to JJ Hack and ask him if he has ever seen an issue with an A-Bolt... YOu know what you have railed and railed on Brownings forever. I bet you never even owned one. You lose again! I made the mistake of telling a friend he could not give me an A-Bort, so he did. I still have a SS Stalker 375H&H and even killed a Kodiak bear with it in the spring of '97. I owned a few prior, too. And flat out you are wrong on me railing against Browning. A-Borts, yes, but not Brownings as I have several and find many quite solid. Also, you fail to address the basic issue that I have documented many failures with A-Borts, as has JJ. And there are more than a few documented on the internet. Feel free to ignore the negativs experiences of many on a very low volume model. You owe it to yourself!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,915
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
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The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,002
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2001
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The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade. According to unsubstantiated and undocumented anecdotal evidence, Browning's big problem with the A Bolts, and possibly X Bolts, probably lies with the metallurgy of the metals they use for their triggers, receivers, barrels, etc. If these rifles are taken to Alaska, and thereby closer to the Arctic Circle and North Pole, the magnetic attraction of the pole apparently changes the molecular makeup of these metals, rendering them corrosive, soft, and prone to immediate failure. These failures must be real, as they are reported frequently by Sitka deer. If these same rifle models are taken to more equatorial latitudes, these problems seem to abate, as witness the thousands of Browning owners who have used these rifles in North America, Africa, etc. without apparent problems- at least they don't seem to be reported often on the 24 HC, the truthful clearinghouse of all matters relating to firearms. My own personal experience with a Browning X-Bolt, here in North America, where hunting seasons often see use in sub-freezing, wet and snowy conditions, has been one of flawless performance. A real test of this theory would be for folks to take the Brownings to Antarctica to see of the phenomenon exists in the magnetic proximity of the South Pole.
I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade. Wow! One whole Remington lemon and you are positive the Whole World is looking at you! There are far fewer A- and X-Borts out there than there are 700s... orders of magnitude differences in count. Why be surprised when they find a bad one. But then you bad-mouth Remington pumps?!?! You do realize the 870 is the most used shotgun don't you? The militaries of a lot of countries, cops everywhere, and lots of farm boys use those nasty old 870s and they get the job done. Have you ever heard of any real tweaking on an 870? Why divert the focus to a firearm that sets well above average in every category? Oh yeah, that would be to get away from the argument you have no chance of winning.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade. According to unsubstantiated and undocumented anecdotal evidence, Browning's big problem with the A Bolts, and possibly X Bolts, probably lies with the metallurgy of the metals they use for their triggers, receivers, barrels, etc. If these rifles are taken to Alaska, and thereby closer to the Arctic Circle and North Pole, the magnetic attraction of the pole apparently changes the molecular makeup of these metals, rendering them corrosive, soft, and prone to immediate failure. These failures must be real, as they are reported frequently by Sitka deer. If these same rifle models are taken to more equatorial latitudes, these problems seem to abate, as witness the thousands of Browning owners who have used these rifles in North America, Africa, etc. without apparent problems- at least they don't seem to be reported often on the 24 HC, the truthful clearinghouse of all matters relating to firearms. My own personal experience with a Browning X-Bolt, here in North America, where hunting seasons often see use in sub-freezing, wet and snowy conditions, has been one of flawless performance. A real test of this theory would be for folks to take the Brownings to Antarctica to see of the phenomenon exists in the magnetic proximity of the South Pole. Your grasp of physics is telling...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990 |
I bought an Abolt 10 years ago in a pawn shop in Jackson Hole, when my old Savage 110 broke, while hunting greys river drainage. Had that 110 for over 20 years, never a problem till then. The guy in Jackson gave me a good deal on the Abolt, and threw in a leupold scope to make it a fantastic deal. I got a nice deer and have been using that rifle ever since, very accurate, never a problem, same leupold scope. I got a medallion in 25-06 from a guy, who just had to have a wsm, got it cheap, beautiful wood, shot sub MOA. But I've never cared for the 25-06 round, and it sat in the safe. I sold it. I have a 700 varmint in .308, shoots very well, and a 7600 30-06, shoots very well.
Never had problems. I really don't care about brands. Whatever works. But my limited experience with Browning rifles has been very good. If I really needed another rifle, and it was a good deal, I'd get an Xbolt, or a Tikka, or a 700, or the new economy Merkel. I've had a ton of other rifles in various calibers and brands over many years, and know that if I maintained them, they work just fine. These days, what I got works fine.
Last edited by Wyogal; 02/28/16.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902 |
Despite the Schitty bedding job, too many pieces in the trigger, pizz poor bolt design mine shoots decent, not great but decent. Maybe the Japs need a lesson in rifle building. As for the 870's being perfect I can tell you a few stories of "Lemons" in that breed too, as well as a 7600 making a few trips to a Remington authorized repair center before having to go to Remington to get a new barrel and extractor, last Remmy for me that was made after mid 80's. I think I have even heard of Remington having a few recalls in the last few years, maybe just hearsay though. Yes back in the day I don't think you could beat them but nowadays not so. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r490/bcp75/011_zpsaneh9zhg.jpg)
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990 |
Yeah know 10Gauge, you do have a good point. Many rifles built long a go, WERE made to last a long time. And the average hunter back then expected them to last. Younger folks today, want lighter quicker shooting rifles that look cool to them it seems. And a lower price. That usually means plastic. On your point, I got to qualify my last statement and say I'd be more likely to buy an older used rifle with some proven durability.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902 |
Every company has built some junk, some on new designs, some on older models but different materials. Some people have good luck, some bad. You couldnt give me a Nylon 66 despite others thinking they are great guns. Some people love Model 70's but I bet you couldn't give them a truck load of push-feed 70's.
Take a Win Model 94 for example, kick azz old lever guns but when they went to stamped receivers you ended up with a decent paper weight.
I have an old pocket watch that was mt great-grandpas, too many parts and pieces, yes but the old girl keeps on ticking and keeps fuggin accurate time despite being 100 years old and God knows how many trips around the dial.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348 |
So I see a lot of animosity towards the A-bolt being redirected towards the X-bolt. I can agree with some of the complaints towards the A-bolt. Has anyone body actually had any problems out of the X-bolt, preferences aside?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,902 |
No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count... Blah blah blah. Only problem I have had is mine keeps on running and killin critters.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233 |
I've seen a Remington 700 completely shut down by a single grain of sand trapped in the trigger housing. About the only brand of firearm I don't have any of in my house is Remington. You couldn't give me any of their junk. I don't know much about A-Bolts but I do like and own several Brownings. The A-bolts just never appealed to me in the least.
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