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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 370
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Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,538
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I always thought the butt out tool would be useful getting information out of someone that was not completely forthcoming to start with..... Terrorists, cheating spouses and such!
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,755
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The 98 is MUCH better at handling gas from a blown case or primer. In fact, the pre-'64 basically has zero provision for gas diversion.
Of course, that was much more important when the 98 was designed, because cases for smokeless pressures were relatively new--but I've had my head behind both kinds of rifles when a case or primer went, and much prefer the gas-handling of the 98.
The 98's extractor is also different. In a typical controlled-round-feed (CRF) action there’s a slot circling most of the bolt body about ¼ inch behind the bolt face, where a “tongue” (as Stuart Otteson calls it in THE BOLT ACTION) of steel on the extractor fits. The primary function of the slot and tongue are to prevent the extractor from sliding forward or backward along the bolt body, but in the 98 Mauser the back edge of the slot is undercut at an angle, and the front edge of the tongue is angled forward to match the undercut. When a fired cartridge case resists extraction, the angled edge of the tongue wedges into the undercut slot, keeping the extractor firmly around the rim of the case.
In almost all other CRF bolt actions, including the Model 70, the slot and tongue are square. As a result, when a case sticks in the chamber, the extractor’s hook isn’t held as tightly around the case rim. I’ve owned a bunch of CRF bolt rifles over the decades, including 1903 Springfields, pre-’64 and post-’90 Model 70 Winchesters, Ruger 77 Mark II’s and Hawkeyes, and Montana 1999’s. All have square extractor slots and tongues, and I’ve seen the extractor’s hook jump the case rim a few times on such actions, leaving the case in the chamber.
This can also happen on 98 Mausers, but the extractor has to be really worn, which sometimes occurs in old military rifles. I’ve never seen it happen on a commercial 98 action. Nothing like losing an eye to motivate one to not lose the other while developing actions! Still nothing better than the '98
Last edited by cotis; 03/17/16.
Welcome to TN - patron state of shootin’ stuff
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 101
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Campfire Member
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The pre-64's coned breech makes me wonder what Winchester was thinking. They must have understood gas handling so why be so cavalier about it? Maybe it was cheaper and easier to get smooth feeding for every caliber by using the Springfield's coned breech rather than by using a correctly dimensioned magazine box and follower for every caliber like with a Mauser. Or maybe 'coned breech' was just a good selling point for 1930's rifle loonies. Somewhere I read a Mule Deer quote from a rifle company exec (Remington?) about making the 257 Roberts with a long action or the gun nuts wouldn't buy it. Something like that. Maybe those 1930's gun nuts just had to have a coned breech.
Anyway, back on topic. Ruger's RSI 77 is very handy but I think a Mannlicher style stock looks better when the barrel is 20" instead of Ruger's 18.5". And the No.1 RSI should have a 22" barrel at least instead of 20".
Speaking of No.1's, the 45-70 should have had a barrel longer than 22", like maybe 26". Then maybe this gun nut would have bought one.
I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. Mark Twain
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