Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Brown Bear with a 7 Rem Mag questions

Hey, I sent you a PM a few days ago. You been standin' me up!

Say hello to Riley for me. It's been years since I met him with you that day.
Ted

I do believe there were 150 Bronze Points for the 270 for some years. I know the 180 in 30-06 were one of my early introductions to the magic of ballistics. (The terminal effect of those 'big' bullets in plastic water containers, while enthusiastic, were amazingly weak in terms of penetration, exceeded even in some regards by simple old 40 grain RN bullets from a 22 LR.) Heavy game bullets they most certainly aren't.

Ted
Not at home, prepping for a few Kodiak bear hunts and out of most coverage... just discovered the notion of a hotspot on my phone... By the time I figured that out you were back from Sitka. All I could do was chant "Channel Club" over and over!

Last time we had lunch I believe I told you Riley was going to make me a grandfather, which happened 1/16/16.

He is doing very well in virtually all respects. He did burn up the bearings on his mini-boat today looking for good spots to place black bear bait stations... but that just shows he wants to break as much stuff as I have and I have a huge lead!
art

Roger that. I do remember the 150 and 180 gr 30 cal Bronze Points, but never saw or heard of 150s in 270 cal.

The 130s certainly shot flat, but made a terrible mess in sheep and caribou. You certainly didn't want to hit them anywhere but in the lungs.

Ted

Well, congratulations Grampa!

My apologies for the brief hijack,
Ted

Ted
I suspect you are "Forgiven" with appropriate leeway for double entendre...
art

Ain't that the Truth! !

ONE WT was all it took for me to 'forsake' the Bronze Points and I was SO very disappointed. Good Looking, Sleek, Point Deformation protection--ALL for nuttin.

Jerry

I saw that post! As long as theres armchair quarterbacking going on here I'll say I would have no qualms about shooting a brown bear with a 7x57 and 175 NPTs...

Except i sold my 7x57 to Rev Mike


That leaves nothing but my wife's '06 for big guns...


And I would listen to Phil and say I would indeed use use with a 200 NPT on a brown bear.....


if one ever wanders by the house.

I'll loan you mine

you pay for the hunt, and I'll do it!

I think he and his family are a bit more experienced in Alaskan hunting than most on this forum, been in business since 1974 and is a master guide. Also hunts world wide and was IPHA in 2005. He knows what works in his area and for his clients.

I wish I could just pay for mine

.Thats gonna be tough to do when you are paying for mine first.....

I'll start saving.............tomorrow.

Ok, standing by for the 'I shot a ten foot brown bear with a 22 story with no problems' post.... Never shot brown bear, but from what I can tell, when it comes to calibers, they are much like bra sizes; the bigger the better...

Procrastinator.

I'll do better in the future

Yep, at this point I am 'armchairing it'. That's what dreams are made of.

I haven't had the op YET to hunt Elk, but I put in for the draw EVERY yr. I am prepared - rifle/load/bullet>>practice.

I probably will never get to hunt Brown Bear but I LOVE the idea and AM prepared - rifleS - load/bullet>>practice.

Ingwe this is NOT directed at you. Some people don't believe you can learn anything W/O doing it.

I guess some people can't/aren't prepared to do MUCH.

As to The REV.- he now has the 'liability'.

AND yes I would confidently use a 30-06 or 7 RM or 300 WM all loaded with Controlled Expansion bullets.


SO - I guess the Alaska G & F C recognizes the queer 270 as adequate for Brown Bear! Sounds MANLY to me.

Jerry

Pretty typical Campfire thread on cartridges for hunting game larger than deer, whether elk, African plains game or big bears: The votes for bigger rifles come from hunters who either have never hunted the game in question, or maybe have done it once or twice and believed their guide that a bigger rifle's required.

This isn't because their guide is so experienced, but because like many hunters, many guides believe particular cartridges work better than any others, when the bullet and shooter are MUCH more important factors. Such guides tend to be surprised when a smaller cartridge than they believe necessary kills an animal quickly, even when it happens over and over again.

I've hunted with a few guides here than there, and while some are very knowledgeable about hunting rifles and bullets, most are not.
Consequently, over the decades I've developed a ballistic BS detector concerning advice on rifles for big game larger than deer:

1) The farther the hunter lives from the animal in question, the larger the cartridge necessary. This is most common if the hunter has never hunted (or even seen) the game in question.

2) If the person dispensing advice firmly mentions a minimum bullet diameter and weight, they're stuck back in the early 20th century with Elmer Keith.

3) The same as 3 except they firmly advise a "magnum." Often this is part of 3.

4) They state that anybody who "can't handle the recoil of an adequate rifle" shouldn't hunt the game in question.

I've seen this thread for a while now and I keep pushing past it. I just used my best self discipline to walk away.

However this morning It got the best of me. I've worked in this business with the big costal brownies for a part of my early hunting career and my life. There are a few things that I learned with this "recreational" pursuit that were life changing, and likely helped me survive the next part of my future has a Professional hunter in Africa.

To start off, realize that the 7mm is almost 17% smaller in surface area then a 30/06 so when the references are made that if a 30/06 is good so is a 7mm. Would you take a nearly 17% pay cut? Like to be 17% shorter? maybe add 17% more fat to your frame? Pay 17% more taxes?

Also there should be an understanding of what the design intent is of a generally light weight bullet at very high velocity. This is a long range, medium game, flat shooting open country design intent. The 7mm is all this in spades!

What is the requirement of a Brown bear bullet/ cartridge combination? The shooting distance or range will very likely be under or around 100 yards. The animal weight will be likely pushing 800-1000lbs.

So simply from a design perspective this is a mismatch. The cost of this hunt for a non-resident is well in excess of 10,000 USD today.

As far as just some basic ethics and etiquette where cartridge selection is concerned. Everyone wants to go home to their families when the fun and accomplishment of the hunt is over. Nobody is hoping for a military type middle eastern survival, life and death situation. There is an element when you voluntarily walk into this type of hunt that has some life threatening element involved.

Remember though that this hunt with the associated costs, is not simply about killing a bear. The ultimate goal is killing a bear, returning home safe, and actually finding the bear you shoot. Deliberately going into this with a set of options and choosing the one that will most likely get a single .284 diameter hole into an 800-1000 pound animal. The bear could have 3-4" of fat under the skin, and 2-3" long thick hair to soak up the blood. All while hunting in the rain soaked bush for an animal that rarely leaves tracks you can follow in all but the best conditions.

While I was only in my mid 20's and early 30's working in this business in Alaska, Those years were very much a part of my formable youth. The comments I listen to from the then " old timers" were some of the things that still echo in the back of my mind today. Most if not all of the hunting lore they imparted on me are as true right now as they were in the 1960's.

There is no catch and release in hunting. The Brown bear is not a cartoon creature that plays nice with others. This is not a video game where you can start over when you run out of lives. It's a real situation that requires a serious level of good decisions along the way, to ensure you get home safe! I close with the soap box rant by saying that you can haul a good deal of firewood in a camero, but that does not make it the right tool for the job.