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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47 |
Because Phil is a rifle loony....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,688 Likes: 4
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,688 Likes: 4 |
In this thread, we went from 270's 7x57's 7mm Rem Mags and 30-06s .. and that it is all about shot placement and type of bullet... Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage? To.... I stepped up to a 375 and then a 375AI because of a couple situations that left me wanting a bit more.
Which is why at times I prefer the most satisfying feeling of my 458 !
I've read stories of native guides backing up bear clients with .30-30's. In that situation I'd carry a .338. I'd reach for my 9.3 in a charge/tracking situation.
As for me, this is the REAL answer. If someone wants to HUNT bear he should be able to handle a bigger bore and be in shape to follow up all the way through. The idea of "that I'll have my guide to back me up and put the killing shot in it" takes away from the the hunt. Guides can line their pockets every day with those types of people. For me personally, I don't want any guide putting in bullet in MY bear. I want to kill it. Since you quoted my statement about stepping up to the 375 and 375AI let me explain again... I had a bear shot in the heel and in the guts once. Shooter was new to his rifle. I followed and killed it a couple miles away in an alder patch at staplegun range with my 300WM... it was mighty sick and did not charge, just tried to hunker down and let me go by, I think. For a follow-up gun I would have preferred the 375, so I got one. I have no issue with someone shooting them with just about anything, but if the odds of things getting sporty are elevated by a new shooter I will bring the bigger rifle. But that obviously is not about hunting them, just stopping someone else's. And, BTW, to those feeling like you do that your bear will not be shot by the guide unless absolutely needed you should be very careful about talking to your guide about that. Many guides will shoot IMMEDIATELY after you do. There was even a thread here a while back by a guy bitching because he missed the bear but the guide did not...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
Of course. I knew that.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Many guides will shoot IMMEDIATELY after you do. There was even a thread here a while back by a guy bitching because he missed the bear but the guide did not... Lots of fellers have people at home whom they are rather fond of too, and having been spooked a time or two by the mutual stalking process that a wounded bear sometimes becomes part of, I can hardly blame the guys that do that. Nor do I blame them when there is a second client who also expects to be provided a decent opportunity, but get short-shrift due to the first hunter's wounded animal that wasn't hit well and gets sighted again day after day; (and the first hunter's tag is legally filled whether the wounded animal is ever recovered.) A smart guide sometimes knows more about the holes in an animal than they ever reveal to the wallet bearer.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,581 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,581 Likes: 1 |
Many guides will shoot IMMEDIATELY after you do. There was even a thread here a while back by a guy bitching because he missed the bear but the guide did not... Lots of fellers have people at home whom they are rather fond of too, and having been spooked a time or two by the mutual stalking process that a wounded bear sometimes becomes part of, I can hardly blame the guys that do that. Nor do I blame them when there is a second client who also expects to be provided a decent opportunity, but get short-shrift due to the first hunter's wounded animal that wasn't hit well and gets sighted again day after day; (and the first hunter's tag is legally filled whether the wounded animal is ever recovered.) A smart guide sometimes knows more about the holes in an animal than they ever reveal to the wallet bearer. What a bunch of hypothetical bullshit,, this thread has turned a fairly simple question into another, I'd Do This, or I'd Do That,,,,,,When in fact very few here had done business with a brown bear, much less wounded in the brush!
I tend to use more than enough gun
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
I'd feel comfortable hunting and tracking brown bear with a .223 AI. The regular .223 wouldn't be enough though. That is where I'd draw the line.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,860 |
Many guides will shoot IMMEDIATELY after you do. There was even a thread here a while back by a guy bitching because he missed the bear but the guide did not... Lots of fellers have people at home whom they are rather fond of too, and having been spooked a time or two by the mutual stalking process that a wounded bear sometimes becomes part of, I can hardly blame the guys that do that. Nor do I blame them when there is a second client who also expects to be provided a decent opportunity, but get short-shrift due to the first hunter's wounded animal that wasn't hit well and gets sighted again day after day; (and the first hunter's tag is legally filled whether the wounded animal is ever recovered.) A smart guide sometimes knows more about the holes in an animal than they ever reveal to the wallet bearer. What a bunch of hypothetical bullshit,, this thread has turned a fairly simple question into another, I'd Do This, or I'd Do That,,,,,,When in fact very few here had done business with a brown bear, much less wounded in the brush! Shot one 50 yards out twice with my 375 KS and he plum flipped over heels to the sky. Well....actually, he ran off.
I retired from the Johns Manville asbestos pop tart factory in ‘59, and still never made the connection.—-Slumlord
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,037 |
If'n I ever show up for a guided Brown Bear hunt with a .338win mag or a .375 hopefull the guide will slap the fu ck outta me give me his spare 30-06..
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,616 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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So I was wondering is a 7mm REM mag enough for brown bear?
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
It's enough for sure and a lot better than a graphite fly rod for self defense in thick alders. I carried a 7 RM as it was the only rifle I owned at the time. Also carried a heavily loaded Colt 45. Never shot a brownie with that but it put the hurt to a 350lb black bear alright.
Given my druthers it would have been a .375 as the carry rifle.
Some would qualify the 7 as a beach rifle or Mt. rifle which is good. In the thick stuff nothing is too big.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
So I was wondering is a 7mm REM mag enough for brown bear? Wow.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,025 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,025 Likes: 7 |
So I was wondering is a 7mm REM mag enough for brown bear? No. You need at least a 7 RUM.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
So I was wondering is a 7mm REM mag enough for brown bear? Wow. Well, I gave him credit for being 'sarcastic' w/o the emoticon. IF he is serious THEN he mustn't have read much of this thread. I think we should start WOW upside down, = MOM - ----------------------------- I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and have a different perspective for Big Bear hunting. I sincerely appreciate all the input from 'experienced' big bear hunters/guides. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 04/14/16.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Posts: 305
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
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Since the key phrase seems to be "a rifle he/she is comfortable with", then what does it take to get "comfortable" with a rifle?
In my experience it is just getting it sighted in and shooting (and carrying it) enough so that you can aim, mount, and shoot it with field accuracy (based upon the ranges you will most likely shoot at the animal hunted).
You should be able to take the safety off or on without conscious thought. It also means to me, knowing the ballistic limitations of your rifle as far as range.
For my .416 Rem Mag it took me about 2 months and 2 boxes of rounds to be able to shoot it effectively out to 200 yds (that includes sight in rounds). In actual hunting conditions, I never feel recoil or even think about recoil.
If a person doesn't handle moderate to heavy recoil very well, than I would suggest they have no business hunting large DG. JMO.
However, I can certainly see where a guide would rather have a client use a minimally adequate caliber that he has a lot of confidence in, rather than deal with a nervous nelly who is scared of his rifle and can't shoot it for sh*t.
People draw confidence when faced with a potentially dangerous situation from different things. Some from external things like a rifle they have killed a lot of game with, some from religion, and some draw confidence from within.
BH63
Last edited by BH63; 04/14/16.
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Campfire Tracker
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I was wondering how long it would take before this thread turned to schitt!
Bob Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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So I was wondering is a 7mm REM mag enough for brown bear? Wow. Well, I gave him credit for being 'sarcastic' w/o the emoticon. IF he is serious THEN he mustn't have read much of this thread. I think we start WOW upside down, = MOM - ----------------------------- I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and have a different perspective for Big Bear hunting. I sincerely appreciate all the input from 'experienced' big bear hunters/guides. Jerry Yes I was being sarcastic.....
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Don't know if it's already been mentioned so lets just say someone was convinced they needed a new rifle of a larger caliber for a brown bear hunt because they feel their(fill in the blank)chambered rifle isn't enough no matter what they've read or been told. Couldn't they just step up in caliber size to rifle that produces the same or near the same recoil as the one they have? As an example I feel my 9.3x62 w/270's recoils very similar to my .30-06 w/180's. Granted the 9.3x62 is a bit over one pound heavier. 8lbs compared to a little over 6.5lbs. Not enough difference for a hunter who should be in good shape for the hunt though.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
EZEARL: That's an option and the reason cartridges like the 35 Whelen, 9.3x62 and 338/06 are useful, too.
I did load workup for an older guy who was headed for a brown bear hunt in Alaska. The 375 and the 300 Weatherby were too much for him but the 35 Whelen was just right.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 305
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I think the Alaska game department recommends using 200 or 220 gr bullets with the 30-06 for brownies.
BH63
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,282 Likes: 47 |
This thread has now reached the stage where, like history, it tends to repeat itself, because it's grown too long for anybody to read the whole thing.
Of course, some people never read threads even if there are only 3-4 posts, because they're too eager to post their own answer.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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