Can any of you make the case for weed without a moral equivalent?
Weed makes you high.
People want to get high.
When it's illegal, it increases crime and eliminates the ability to tax.
When it's legal, it decreases crime and is taxable.
Dave
Dave, Dave, Dave
are you trying to be logical and make sense around here?
People want to get high? Are you sure?
Geno
PS, peeps be gettin' high however they can. Wherever they can. And some peeps, whenever they can. Just the way life is.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
And your post above about how legalization killed your town, I'm sorry, don't buy it one second. If nothing else, Southern Oregon was gangster central as far as black market weed growers in decades past! Right? Many of those the transitioned to being quasi-legal "medical" growers. Some of THOSE, will transition to licensed, regulated, legal suppliers of the recreational trade in the stuff.
And all along its been everywhere. Cheap. Easy to get. That hasn't changed one bit.
Legal weed did not make your town somehow MORE dangerous 'cause of the eeevil weed smokers. To the contrary.
I think you are seeing what you want to see.
I've been around the stuff since the 70's. Hey, I'm a guitar player, whadaya gonna do?! [bleep] happens. It truly is no big deal. Motivated people stay motivated. Talented people stay talented. Good parents stay good parents. Good employees stay good employees. If/when that's not true, 99% of the time it's cause of people being people, not because of weed.
Honestly, if it didn't exist, some of y'all would just find something else to attach your purile, self-serving fantasies to, about "why the other guy sucks!"... get over it. It's mild. It has real benefits. Legalization is a big win for FREEDOM and democracy. Find some new thing to demonize. This battle is lost. Sanity won.
"We're" not going to stop at weed, right? Other folks prefer to chase different dragons.......a substance is a substance. Booze, weed, meth, heroin..... if we're gonna sit at the table we should be all in.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
while you are busy waving your American Flag, while wearing your MaryJane supporting T Shirt, in your shorts and birkenstocks up there in Eugene....
why don't you get in the real world for a minute, and come on down and experience it all.... I doubt Roy nor I have any real motivation to "act like" its destroying Hooterville here.... there has been a dramatic change in this town just since it was legalized....
your posts are speculations from your keyboard....
Roy and I live here....it must be some other reason we suddenly see a whole lot more black guys around town with out of state plates... in a town where their presence is a real rarity... maybe they are getting interested in investing in the timber industry...thinking a Black Logger is going to be the next cool thing to be... kinda like a development of "Shaft"... chains, jewelry and a chain saw...
and just what 'self serving fantasies' do you think we have down this way?? we are just fantasizing the community is getting screwed over, that there is an increase in crime of all types, suddenly more people not seeing stop signs and red lights causing fender benders, or people getting clipped in cross walks... and the increase in patients being brought into the ER is strictly because of Obama Care...
and 'sanity' won what? You are telling us that a Doper Being High, has anything to do with Sanity? if that is stressing you out there Jeffry, just have another hit or two and go to bed, you won't remember any of it in the morning anyway....
I've never seen anyone get high and beat their wife.
It generally works the other way around...
"How'd you get that back eye?"
"Oh, I fell down." (That's the lie that gets used when she doesn't give her hubby the $40 he wanted for a gram.)
Not an unusual situation at all, not that it is the weed's fault, nor can one say that moods and behaviors are entirely disassociated from it either.
Ok, I'm calling BS on that one, Klik.
You can call it what you want to, but it changes nothing. I have only seen it repeated countless times, so it's probably nothing. "Dope before diapers!" too, if you want to face reality.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
You can call it what you want to, but it changes nothing. I have only seen it repeated countless times, so it's probably nothing. "Dope before diapers!" too, if you want to face reality.
You know people that would let their kids go without diapers so they can buy pot? Sounds like you know more that one.
One thing I don't get about potheads is why they wanted to legalize it. It is readily available, at reasonable prices. Getting caught with it was a slap on the wrist. Now, they want to pay a tax on it? They want government control? Makes no sense.
A slap on the wrist that stays on your record for the rest of your life.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I still find it hard to understand, where someone who's against the legality and distribution of this crap is a hypocrite.....
Seems those who think so, assume that we who condemn it are automatically alcohol users and abusers....
They also like to tell us about its 'redeeming value' to society, and explain how harmless it all is.... yet turn a blind eye and deaf ear, to all the social problems it causes in a community...
Legalization of it in this state, and ideal growing conditions, has brought criminal elements into this community from out of state along with their ganglike attitudes and activities....
but that seems acceptable to the accusers of its a harmless drug, since they can say so without having to live here and put up with all the BS it brings our community....
and so many proponents of it, just explain that the users just get high and sit at home and veg out, watch TV and raid the frig.... well someone needs to inform our local idiots and users, because they are not all with the program... they go into stores and shoplift..( which has increase with the drug traffic in town after legalization)
have friends in town who have jobs dealing with the public, who have been threatened at gun point, by people being high..in particular one who is a handicapped Marine who drives a tow truck.... he first reported it to the local police, their response was to tell him to arm himself, and immediately issued him a CCW...
In a quiet town a year ago, you didn't need to arm yourself to walk down the street after dark in the city limits... legalized dope and for some reason now you do...
all of you "its safe stuff" crowd need to explain that to the local dopers... guess they all didn't get the memo...
know local Mexicans who got away from all that crap in Mexico and they are now probably the most angry about it being legalized here.... one doesn't have to explain the effects of it on society in general to them....they had left that behind in Mexico... now its followed them here...
so for the users who its harmless, well enjoy it then in the privacy of your home or out while camping etc...
but hate to be bringing a news flash.... not all dope smokers and users are as docile as you are about it all...
I'll just address the highlighted part since it is an honest question and deserves an honest answer.
The hypocrisy comes not from assuming that people who are against pot are automatically alcoholics - although some blatantly brag about their use of alcohol - but rather the opposite. If someone is against the deleterious individual and societal effects of an intoxicant like marijuana then where is the equal outcry against an intoxicant that has been proven over and over to have very serious consequences, both for individuals and society? Drunk drivers kill thousands, drinking and hangovers result in thousands or millions of lost hours of productivity, and alcoholism can and does destroy families. Where is the outcry to completely ban tobacco, with very harsh penalties attached? The use of tobacco kills people in a horrible manner, slowly choking to death and/or dying in miserable prolonged agony.
If someone wants to condemn the use of marijuana every time some thread about it appears, why do I not see these same posters vehemently attacking the use of alcohol in the many threads where people ask others "what'cha drinking tonight?" and boast about how sophisticated they are because of the high priced distilled spirits they prefer? Where is the outcry against tobacco when folks brag about what sophisticated people they are by the high priced smokes they use? When these things are pointed out the reply is that "I am responsible, I can use these things wisely." So what?
If one intoxicant with deleterious health effects is bad then why aren't all of them bad? True, some are more intoxicating than others and some affect some people more than others, some can handle them and not ruin their lives, others can't. But looking at society as a whole, if someone wants the government to impose harsh penalties against everyone that uses an intoxicant - the responsible and irresponsible alike are penalized equally - then why is that desire to ban the use of intoxicants so selective?
Why are the people who wish to protect us from one substance not equal proponents of protecting us from equally harmful substances? Some might quibble about calling this selective umbrage "hypocrisy" and that's okay with me. I call it hypocrisy.
Now, if someone calls for the outright ban on marijuana while at the same time talking about their use of alcohol and/or tobacco, then that hypocrisy should be obvious.
I've seen marijuana delay lives and I've seen alcohol completely ruin lives. My best friend in high school sat around his apartment for some 8-9 years just smoking dope and getting by with manual labor. He finally got his act together and is now the head of a department at a university in S. Florida. My "brother" is an alcoholic homeless bum living on the streets of Ft. Lauderdale, FL (last I heard, AFAIK he may be dead by now). One of my friends in high school lost his driver's license for 10 years due to repeated drunk driving convictions. My best friend's father (the dope smoker) took months to die at age 55, slowly choking to death from tobacco. Alcohol was partly responsible for my divorce - my wife was the alcoholic, btw.
But be that as it may, my point of view is that some people are responsible and some aren't. Allow adults to run their own lives. If and only if they show that they cannot handle a substance responsibly, then perhaps the government can step in to protect us from their irresponsibility. We don't tell people "you can't drink at all", we tell them "if you drink and drive you endanger innocent people so then we drop the hammer on you." I feel the same way toward all intoxicants. If you want to use them, fine, that's your business, but if you endanger me or mine through their use, then you get your ass handed to you.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Are you saying you get in trouble for having too much vodka in your house? And if so, why?
Dave
Lots of places in Alaska are, by 'local option', 'dry'. (To say 'dry' is a misnomer is an understatement.)
It's a very easy lesson in simple economics to see how alcohol bootlegging works. A simple, cheap bottle, 750 ml, of booze - usually vodka, whiskey, or rum- was once $10-12 in town (Anchorage) and $120-140 locally (dry village). Troopers, due to pressure from various sources, beefed up interdiction and enforcement, and penalties increased (misdemeanors became felonies, etc). Suddenly booze prices went up as supplies became tighter and risks higher. So those 20 bottles of low shelf liquor would have made half the payments on a new snowmachine, about $5000, but instead the VPSO caught them and now someone faces a felony charge.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Know of a semi famous bush pilot lost his plane for awhile due to flying someone in to a dry village with a load of alcohol
Prohibition still exists in some locales in Alaska
That may seem crazy to some folks on here
But no crazier or sadder than the effects of alcohol & drugs on the youth in some of our remote communities
It's a sad deal & im certainly not smart enough to know what the answer should be
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
So why ADD ANOTHER factor to the equation? did you not see my post RE: Holland?
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Yes, I saw your post on Holland. If adding another factor is bad then wouldn't removing a factor be good? MAKE ALCOHOL ILLEGAL!!!!
I'd very much like to see examples of countries where widespread use of alcohol made the roads in that country safer while lowering both violent encounters and divorce rates. While we're at it, I'd like to see examples of countries where widespread use of nicotine, both in smoked and smokeless forms, lowered the rates of cancer and emphysema.
Oh, wait, alcohol and nicotine are the drugs you use so we need to leave them alone.
Did you understand that I am not for drugs, but am against hypocrisy?
And there it is....they can spin it any way they want but jorge and a few others are simply being hypocrites.....
Apparently for some here FG all vices are equal, but some are more equal than others.
But no crazier or sadder than the effects of alcohol & drugs on the youth in some of our remote communities
I long ago lost count of the young people I've worked with, not to mention the parents, who've taken or lost their lives, mostly alcohol related. My fingers and toes could probably be doubled and still not be enough.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe we should legalize everything that makes people stupid, not just most of the things. Don't want to be called a hypocrite, you know, Next, I'll be a racist if Snoop can't get his smoke on without hassles from the Man. Chronic - yeah, that's the ticket!
Quote
(CNSNews.com) -- Smoking marijuana regularly is linked to as many economic and social problems in early midlife as being dependent on alcohol, a recently published international study has found.
The findings “show that cannabis was not safe for the long-term users tracked in our study,” University of California/Davis Associate Professor Magdalena Cerdá, the study’s lead researcher, said in a press release.
“Alcohol is still a bigger problem than cannabis because alcohol use is more prevalent than cannabis use,” Cerda added.
“But as the legalization of cannabis increases around the world, the economic and social burden posed by regular cannabis use could increase as well,” she said.
Researchers found that regular cannabis smokers “ended up in a lower social class than their parents, with lower-paying, less skilled and less prestigious jobs than those who were not regular cannabis smokers."
Smoke Weed Everyday!
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