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And the .30-06 will get higher velocities with even heavier bullet weights than either the .270 or .280. Amazing, isn't it? Sounds like Voodoo to me  
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As a 270 and 280 owner, I do find it amusing that when the CF talks up the 7-08, 7WSM, Mashburn etc it is all about the long and pointy bullets that make them somehow magical. But other than the occasional post on this thread, everyone discusses the 140 Nosler and such in the 280, bullets that the same guys wouldn't be caught dead shooting in the other 7mm's. I have learned from the CF that the 7-08 is a thousand yard cartridge, but the 280 is not. And being able to buy factory ammo is vital ... unless a guy shoots a Mashburn.  Sorry Bob.
Last edited by RickF; 05/30/16.
Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!
Stolen from an erudite CF member.
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Campfire Outfitter
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And the .30-06 will get higher velocities with even heavier bullet weights than either the .270 or .280. Amazing, isn't it? Very true, but the BC'S aren't as good for normal hunting weight bullets.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Rick you are right! But I have a long kill history with 130's in the 270 and 140's in the 280....what's a guy to do? When it comes to long pointy 160's etc, I want to boot them in the arse with a big case full of powder. I like the speed . 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The real point of these discussions: ![[Linked Image]](http://courvo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/splitting-hairs.jpg)
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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BWalker,
Yeah, the BC's of .30 caliber bullets usually aren't quite as good as 7mm's, but let's look at some numbers, since this thread has always been about minutiae. We'll use Nosler bullets and data, since in general we've been talking about "normal" hunting ranges, not whatever is defined as long range.
One interesting thing about the .280 is the SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is exactly the same as the .30-06, 60,000 PSI. Which means we're comparing apples to apples, even if somebody decides to boost either round a little over SAAMI loading data. However, Nosler's data for the .280 was shot in a 26" barrel, so we'll subtract 50 fps to match the 24" data for the .30-06, using the generally accepted 25 fps per inch of barrel:
Maximum velocity 160 .280: 2879 fps
Maximum velocity listed for 165 .30-06: 3002
The BC of the 160 Accubond is listed as .535; the BC of the 165 AccuBond is .475.
Maximum velocity 175 .280: 2710
Maximum velocity 180 .30-06: 2812
The BC of the 175 Partition (they don't make a 175 AB) is .519; the BC of the 180 AB is .507.
Maximum velocity 200 .30-06: 2697
There is no 200-grain 7mm, but since one of the main points of .280 proponents is always the 175's, why wouldn't there be even more advantage in a 200-grain .30-06? The BC of the 200 Partition is .481, and the .300 AB .588.
Now, we can argue with the BC numbers. However, most of them hold up pretty well in Bryan Litz's testing except the 200 .30 AccuBond. But the 200 Partition actually tested a little higher than Nosler's BC number.
Anybody who wants to can run the numbers with this data in a ballistic program. I'm not going to bother, but they'll find the .30-06 bullets do very well out to 500 yards compared to the .280, despite the BC's not being quite as good, thanks in part to the higher muzzle velocities of the .30-06.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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BWalker,
Yeah, the BC's of .30 caliber bullets usually aren't quite as good as 7mm's, but let's look at some numbers, since this thread has always been about minutiae. We'll use Nosler bullets and data, since in general we've been talking about "normal" hunting ranges, not whatever is defined as long range.
One interesting thing about the .280 is the SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is exactly the same as the .30-06, 60,000 PSI. Which means we're comparing apples to apples, even if somebody decides to boost either round a little over SAAMI loading data. However, Nosler's data for the .280 was shot in a 26" barrel, so we'll subtract 50 fps to match the 24" data for the .30-06, using the generally accepted 25 fps per inch of barrel:
Maximum velocity 160 .280: 2879 fps
Maximum velocity listed for 165 .30-06: 3002
The BC of the 160 Accubond is listed as .535; the BC of the 165 AccuBond is .475.
Maximum velocity 175 .280: 2710
Maximum velocity 180 .30-06: 2812
The BC of the 175 Partition (they don't make a 175 AB) is .519; the BC of the 180 AB is .507.
Maximum velocity 200 .30-06: 2697
There is no 200-grain 7mm, but since one of the main points of .280 proponents is always the 175's, why wouldn't there be even more advantage in a 200-grain .30-06? The BC of the 200 Partition is .481, and the .300 AB .588.
Now, we can argue with the BC numbers. However, most of them hold up pretty well in Bryan Litz's testing except the 200 .30 AccuBond. But the 200 Partition actually tested a little higher than Nosler's BC number.
Anybody who wants to can run the numbers with this data in a ballistic program. I'm not going to bother, but they'll find the .30-06 bullets do very well out to 500 yards compared to the .280, despite the BC's not being quite as good, thanks in part to the higher muzzle velocities of the .30-06.
Oh Yeh, NOW YOU"RE USING LOGIC RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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BWalker,
Yeah, the BC's of .30 caliber bullets usually aren't quite as good as 7mm's, but let's look at some numbers, since this thread has always been about minutiae. We'll use Nosler bullets and data, since in general we've been talking about "normal" hunting ranges, not whatever is defined as long range.
One interesting thing about the .280 is the SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is exactly the same as the .30-06, 60,000 PSI. Which means we're comparing apples to apples, even if somebody decides to boost either round a little over SAAMI loading data. However, Nosler's data for the .280 was shot in a 26" barrel, so we'll subtract 50 fps to match the 24" data for the .30-06, using the generally accepted 25 fps per inch of barrel:
Maximum velocity 160 .280: 2879 fps
Maximum velocity listed for 165 .30-06: 3002
The BC of the 160 Accubond is listed as .535; the BC of the 165 AccuBond is .475.
Maximum velocity 175 .280: 2710
Maximum velocity 180 .30-06: 2812
The BC of the 175 Partition (they don't make a 175 AB) is .519; the BC of the 180 AB is .507.
Maximum velocity 200 .30-06: 2697
There is no 200-grain 7mm, but since one of the main points of .280 proponents is always the 175's, why wouldn't there be even more advantage in a 200-grain .30-06? The BC of the 200 Partition is .481, and the .300 AB .588.
Now, we can argue with the BC numbers. However, most of them hold up pretty well in Bryan Litz's testing except the 200 .30 AccuBond. But the 200 Partition actually tested a little higher than Nosler's BC number.
Anybody who wants to can run the numbers with this data in a ballistic program. I'm not going to bother, but they'll find the .30-06 bullets do very well out to 500 yards compared to the .280, despite the BC's not being quite as good, thanks in part to the higher muzzle velocities of the .30-06.
I am sure that's all true, John. Let's get real. There is really nothing that one of the three will do the others wont.
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll wager fewer than 2% use 160's or 175's in their standard 280's.
Yeah - it's not like the 270 doesn't have a 160 ! No ? Jerry "A" being the operative word
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I am sure that's all true, John.
Let's get real. There is really nothing that one of the three will do the others wont.
You could expand that number "three" about tenfold and the statement would still be true.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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My gun safe with a current population of 3 .280's would probably agree! You need to do some catchin' up. 6, at last count, not including AIed versions.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
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Campfire Tracker
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My gun safe with a current population of 3 .280's would probably agree! You need to do some catchin' up. 6, at last count, not including AIed versions. Yeah I'd say so!
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The real point of these discussions: There's no way that thing could split a hair. Just look at the edge! It looks like it was honed with a piece of concrete
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,624 |
BWalker,
Yeah, the BC's of .30 caliber bullets usually aren't quite as good as 7mm's, but let's look at some numbers, since this thread has always been about minutiae. We'll use Nosler bullets and data, since in general we've been talking about "normal" hunting ranges, not whatever is defined as long range.
One interesting thing about the .280 is the SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is exactly the same as the .30-06, 60,000 PSI. Which means we're comparing apples to apples, even if somebody decides to boost either round a little over SAAMI loading data. However, Nosler's data for the .280 was shot in a 26" barrel, so we'll subtract 50 fps to match the 24" data for the .30-06, using the generally accepted 25 fps per inch of barrel:
Maximum velocity 160 .280: 2879 fps
Maximum velocity listed for 165 .30-06: 3002
The BC of the 160 Accubond is listed as .535; the BC of the 165 AccuBond is .475.
Maximum velocity 175 .280: 2710
Maximum velocity 180 .30-06: 2812
The BC of the 175 Partition (they don't make a 175 AB) is .519; the BC of the 180 AB is .507.
Maximum velocity 200 .30-06: 2697
There is no 200-grain 7mm, but since one of the main points of .280 proponents is always the 175's, why wouldn't there be even more advantage in a 200-grain .30-06? The BC of the 200 Partition is .481, and the .300 AB .588.
Now, we can argue with the BC numbers. However, most of them hold up pretty well in Bryan Litz's testing except the 200 .30 AccuBond. But the 200 Partition actually tested a little higher than Nosler's BC number.
Anybody who wants to can run the numbers with this data in a ballistic program. I'm not going to bother, but they'll find the .30-06 bullets do very well out to 500 yards compared to the .280, despite the BC's not being quite as good, thanks in part to the higher muzzle velocities of the .30-06.
Wow, those BC's are pretty close. Much closer than the Berger VLD's where the 168gr 7mm has nearly identical BC to the 210gr 30. How fast can the 30-06 boot a 210?
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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About 2700 from a 24" barrel. But I generally load the 185 VLD's at around 2850.
Nosler lists 7mm 168's at around 2800 from the .280, adjusting for a 24" barrel.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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I get nearly 2850 with the VLD 168's from my 22" 700 Mountain Rifle.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Originally Posted By jwall Yeah - it's not like the 270 doesn't have a 160 ! No ? Jerry >>Bellydeep>> Recognize this ? "A" being the operative word " b d p.15 Now -Please note MD's comment-----not mine.
Several years ago I did an analysis of the available .277 and .284 bullets and came to the conclusion that there were even more .277 bullets available.
These days there's an even greater selection of .270 bullets,....
But as always, somebody will pick nits with all this--which is why, as I mentioned earlier, arguments about ALMOST identical cartridges go on far longer.
" ALMOST identical" Just tryin to sort the FACTS !!! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"ALMOST identical" sounds to "citified" I prefer "two peas in a pod" better.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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As I've said in this thread and in other threads. If I could have only 1 rifle in 270 Win OR 280 Rem.....
I'd be happy with either. TRUE.
I have to add ONE qualifier:
If I were limited to factory ammo...270 hands down.
If I can handload either....makes NO difference.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"ALMOST identical" sounds to "citified" I prefer "two peas in a pod" better. "almost identical" is MO better soundin! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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