Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Rebore or restore 99F

The post by tarheelpwr looking for a 99 barreled action got me thinking about a laid-away project.

I have a 99F in .308 from around 1957 give or take. SN 905xxx, can't make out letter in boss code (uneven stamp). Receiver has most of its blue, a little carry wear. Barrel bluing in good shape. Stock is good, no cracks, does have sling swivels added. Problem is a pitted bore. Shifts point of impact around 4 to 6 inches at 100 yds from clean to fouled bore. Had to leave it fouled thru hunting season (which couldn't have helped the pitting!), starting to lose trust in cold bore first shot, so stopped using it. Picked up a take-off .308 99F barrel a while ago, but put it all aside.

So, maybe you smart folks can point me in the right direction. Options:
1. get the replacement barrel installed and see if it behaves and becomes a reliable shooter.
2. send it off to JES Reboring with the original barrel for conversion to .358.
3. sell it off.

If it matters, I have a 1923 vintage 99F in 30/30 that I use when I don't want a scope, and a Kimber Montana in .308 when I do. The Kimber replaced the .308 99F as my main deer rifle. Will also inherit a 1957 vintage 99F in 300 Savage when my father decides to stop hunting (hopefully not too soon).

Consider a 338 Federal rebore.

If the receiver will load and feed 358, I'd think hard about JES.

I'd go with JES and make it a .358. From my perspective the .338 Federal is an answer looking for a question. If you do your part the .358 kills critters DRN.

i would sell it. Good money after bad type thing.

Sounds like the perfect candidate for a JES rebore

I would screw the new .308 barrel on and put the money saved into more ammo. What can you do with a .358 that you can't do with a .308? Are there grizzly bears or something where you live? Plenty more .358 stuff on the shelves than there is .308 stuff? Perhaps one likes the bit more added recoil of the .358?

All in jest (mostly). Do whichever makes you happier.

Unless money is of no concern then by all means give JES the business, commerce is good for the economy. Otherwise I ditto gnoahhh's remarks.

PS - The .308 like the .06 is a great cartridge. Too bad they are considered "ho hum" these days.

I'd put the 308 barrel on....

If I had a 308 barrel, which you do, I'd have it screwed on.

.338 Federal is a sweet cartridge ballistically.

Have thought about the .338 Fed before. I'm mainly a northeastern hunter these days, don't need the ballistics of a .338, don't want the recoil thru that narrow steel butt plate. If I take a trip farther north or out west for bigger stuff I have a .350 REM Mag to take along. Yes, a .358 will also add recoil, unless loaded a little lighter to around 35 REM levels.

You .308 guys are right, it will do pretty much anything I want in a 99. So would a 300 Savage, but couldn't find a nice one for sane $$ when I was looking. The down side is I wouldn't get to try a .358!

Guess I am leaning towards putting on the .308 barrel, that's why I bought it to begin with.

And after installing the new .308 barrel, you find the POI still shifts then you know other forces are in play such as fore arm bedding, sights/scope issues, etc. While getting to the root of problems such as you described may be frustrating, they are also issues which challenge our intellects and that is never a bad thing.

My .308W 99E would not accept more than one .358 cartridge in the magazine. I was contemplating ordering a .358 rotor from Numrich when I read on this forum that JES will modify a rotor as part of the reboring service at no additional cost. A phone call to JES confirmed it. He got my business. JES is as good and fast as everyone has said.

Unless money is $225 (+ one way shipping) short, a .358 99F is a sweet addition to any hunting armamentaria. The ability of shooting cheap .38 spl pistol bullets with a modest load of Red Dot is a economical plus.

While we are on this subject would some one/several some ones please put some ruff prices with:

1) replace the .308 brl with another .308 brl.

2) rebore the original brl to .358 and installing.

3) rebore the original brl to .338 Federal and installing. I'm guessing this might be the same as #2.

For #2 & #3 would you replace the rotor with a .358 or just open the neck area in the .308 rotor?

For #2 & #3 would you need to tweak the cartridge guide?

I know little about the subject.

Last I talked to JES, reboring was $225 including return shipping. He'll cut the barrel for an extra $25 if you want to shorten it.

He also suggested the 358 over the 338. He said some guys were seeing pressure issues with the 338 using factory ammo.

A good smith or machinist can install the .308 barrel for half of that, depending on how hungry he is and whether headspace issues arise. I do my own barreling now. (And no, don't ask! I don't have an FFL.)

Sure, that's just for labor, but you still have to buy a barrel.

JES is a good deal, for a moderately good product. If you can buy a good brand new barrel for $200, and find someone to chamber and mount it for $200, You'd have yourself a great deal, and an accurate shooter.

I can't see going to the trouble of trying to save money just to end up with a mediocre shooter.

Has anyone ever done a 99 thumper? Bigger than .38 bore?

I should think you could build a 450 bushmaster and get it to feed from a 284 drop box magazine...hmm, maybe I just uncovered my next adventure!

"JES is a good deal, for a moderately good product." I've never done business with him but I'm not sure what you mean with this statement.

In the random sampling I've seen of JES rebores (three rifles), the bores were pretty ruff. They shot on the poor side of factory accuracy, and cleaning them was constant, crucial, and tedious, but that was only an issue during load development. I bought all three used, not from JES, so maybe that's why they were less than stellar examples.

Before changing anything, you should invest in a fire lapping kit. IME, you can bring back barrels that look pretty bad to acceptable hunting accuracy. In a 99 308 that's 2" @100 which will kill any big game just fine (remember a 2" group is only 1" off your POA)

I had an Israel 98 in 308 that had a black hole bore.
Fired lapped the pizz out of it, so much that .311 bullets were needed. Slapped a cheap scout scope on it and the nasty old thing held 1.5" for 3 shots @100.
Bore looked far better than any of the current rebore sellers (now that LaBounty does not)

358s in a 99 hurt, 338 is a better balanced cartridge (see current Guns and Ammo)

Good shooting !

All that work to shrink the group 1/2 inch at the cost of not being able to use .308 any more? Seems strange to me.

If 358 bothers you, 338 will bother you equally as bad.

He already has another .308 barrel.

Sell it and use the money to buy an AR!!!!! 😀 Just kidding had JES rebore my 308 to 358 and loved it.

Once it's fouled, does POI stay put? And is the accuracy acceptable? If yes to both, I'd leave it alone. I leave all my bores fouled after sighting in. I clean them after deer season is over.

Dale

Before you replace the barrel or sell the rifle do this faster and less expensive adjustment.

Clean the barrel out vigorously with a compound and shoot it.

Recut its crown yourself. Use a grinding wheel with an angle to it.

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Basically yes - it would take 6 or 8 fouling shots, poi would gradually move down and left, then it would start grouping. Could actually get 3/4 to 1.5 in 100 yd groups depending on ammo. Problem is I got to where I didn't even dare to run a dry patch thru a wet barrel after a day out in the rain or wet snow for fear of shifting poi. I actually used it for 10 or 15 yrs, sighting in in Sep and not cleaning until Dec. One thing you can pretty much be sure of is getting wet during northern zone/western Adirondacks deer season. If I cleaned the barrel, poi shifted. If I took off the forend to wipe out water poi shifted. Cleaning seemed to get harder, pitting probably got worse. Just lost my trust in it.

I leave any rifle I'm hunting with fouled after final sighting-in. But the ones with good bores take minutes to clean, vs days for this 99F. I got to the stage that I'd have to scrub the bore with a copper solvent (think I was using Hoppes Bench Rest at the time), let it sit wet overnight, clean and scrub, sit overnight, repeat for several days to get the bore clean. Got real tired of that.

The thing is, IMO, that if one leaves copper solvents in the bore too long and too often, one may well be incurring unwanted damage from that. Unintended consequences in the form of microscopic etching of the steel which in turn promotes increased copper fouling- a catch-22 situation. I've heard this theorized by knowledgeable folks over the years and lean toward believing it. Not all of my shooting is with cast bullets, and when shooting jacketed stuff I never leave the copper solvent in the bore more than 5-10 minutes then run a series of dry patches, and repeat the cycle as necessary leaving the bore clean and oiled. Sweet's 7.62 Solvent and Barnes solvent are my two poisons of choice for that. Strong stuff, either one.

As for not cleaning a hunting rifle after sight-in for the duration of the hunt, that's my protocol too. Another trick I have been known to do is to clean normally and oil, then before hunting remove the oil and finally wet a patch with acetone or brake cleaner to leave a chemically clean dry bore. I found first shot impact to land right where it's supposed to. The downside to that is risking rust if conditions are damp. Other compatriots of mine scoff at both protocols and clean and oil and then go hunting. They maintain that risking slightly off bullet placement on a deer-size target at 50-100 yards is nothing compared the risk of a rusty bore. These are the same fellas who tell me I overthink this stuff too much. Perhaps they're right!

Finally, if I had a persnickety rifle like the OP's I probably wouldn't futz with it anymore and re-barrel it. I've sold guns for lots less reasons than that too. Life is too short. I certainly wouldn't have endured the gun's shenanigans for 15 years- he's a better man than I for that reason!

Maybe it only felt like 15 yrs. Don't remember actual dates. Think I bought the rifle somewhere in '89-'91, replaced it with the Kimber Montana around 2005. Been sitting in the safe since then.

I've always been a bit leary of using cleaning agents with amonia, which I think is in some copper removing products. On the issue of cleaning, a buddy of mine has been shooting firearms since he was a kid and has never felt compelled to clean all that much. One point in his favor is that it is smokeless and not black powder that we shoot these days.

While my 99E JES rebored bore is not as pretty as factory barrels, it shoots 1.5 MOA consistently after finding several loads that work.

Dyna Tek Bore Coat solved the issue of copper fouling.

I have a stainless 308 barrel (somewhere) that I bought intending to have JES rebore/rechamber to 338 Fed, but Mr. O told me that he had done a couple of 99s in 338 Fed and the owners were reporting high pressure signs with factory ammo, so he recommended against it. I have always thought that Mr. O turning down work spoke highly of him, as only honest people will turn away work/$$.

.308 shoots a 180 grn nice, I imagine you could shoot a 200grn if need be, how far off from a .358 would that be? Just a little bit heavier and a little bit slower? .358 is a .308 case necked up, right?

have been living in the west for 65 years and hunting for 55 of those years. have yet to bump into anything that the 308 can't kill.
i am not in love with the 308 but it is up to the job on anything that walks in the Americas. hype of the mags and super mags has just gotten ou of hand.
and yes i have killed all of the western game with the 308 or lesser cartridges.
that said i would go for a 358 or 338f just for something different.