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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,284 |
Welcome to 24hr. It's great to see companies coming on here asking questions and taking feedback. Keep up the good work.
You ain't about that life.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
I don't know didly squat what a particular marketer dictates to the OEM (not the other way around), and I'm betting you don't either. Retail price points determined by Zeiss, Leupold, Kahles, etc.....not the OEM, depending on the margin wanted by the marketer. If you're lumping Tract, or even Maven into the equation, did you miss the no middleman part?
Assume the Tract is made in Japan by Kamakura, same as the Zeiss Conquest HD, which is fantastic BTW. Zeiss marks it up $400 to you through the retailer, Maven/Tract do not.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
Oh yes. As far as glass, HD, UHD, etc. are all different names for the exact same thing, and that's ED glass. ED being the "proper" term.....
And there are numerous grades of ED glass, at varying price points.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
I'd say there is some truth to that, and a lot that's not. For instance there can be 5 different brands, made by LOW or Kamakura in Japan, and have different glass, OEM specs, etc, etc etc. About the only thing they could have in common is the OEM.
A good example is that, unbeknownst to many, a Zeiss Conquest HD, Vortex Razor HD, and Kahles binoculars are all made in Japan by Kamakura. Leupold's fantastic Gold Ring HD was too. They are obviously not identical products. Also unbeknownst to most, there are varying grades of HD/ED/UHD glass, even though all of it is termed "HD" or something similar depending on the particular brand it's marketed under.
I highly doubt anybody is going to find out how good these products are by reading about it. I have a Meopta HD, Swarovision, Gold Ring HD, and my buddy Big Al has a SLC HD. I'm going to get my hands on a Toric 8x42 ASAP and find out for myself, and leave the speculating to the experts here on 24HCF.
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
There may be different grades of glass, but I'd bet the price points don't vary much if at all on said grades. You get what you pay for. Especially with scopes that are made on contract.....
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
There may be different grades of glass, but I'd bet the price points don't vary much if at all on said grades. You get what you pay for. Especially with scopes that are made on contract..... I was wondering where you been.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
They are made in Japan, and have been for several years now, no matter what the box says. Mule Deer mentioned it here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...90107/all/kahles_riflescopes_1_inch_tubeand a Euro-dude named jan van dalaan over at Birdforum owns an optics shop over there somewhere and has mentioned it several times over there.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
[quote=JGRaider]
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura? I will tell you right now: Anyone who thinks the German/Euro makers haven't pulled their hoodies over their heads and ducked into the Japanese glass plant for a shopping spree is misinformed at best.....
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
There may be different grades of glass, but I'd bet the price points don't vary much if at all on said grades. You get what you pay for. Especially with scopes that are made on contract..... So a NF NXS, SS, Bushy HDMR's, Huskemaw's are the same, since they're all made in the same Japanese factory?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
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What up Scott? Yeah I have a veddy busy (polite term) year thus far. Lotta $hit goin' on.......grin.
Funny I was thinking on picking your brain on something about an hour ago......
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
So a NF NXS, SS, Bushy HDMR's, Huskemaw's are the same, since they're all made in the same Japanese factory? Not so sure they are all made in same factory. What's more, I believe NF designs their own scopes. They are not one of the companies who utilizes what I would call the "classic Japanese design". Such as found on scopes like Nikon, Weaver, Bushnell, etc., etc. Back when I was real into caring about this stuff, which I no longer am, I found that only the U.S. companies designed their own scopes. Meaning Leupold, Redfield, Weaver (micro trac scopes), Burris. The other big name Jap scopes used the same basic designs generated on the same Jap computer programs. Little to no difference in quality, reliability. They now have optics houses in Thailand, Phillipines, China, etc. Sometimes these firms are contracted out by larger firms, and sometimes they compete directly against them. I will pick on Nikon again (to support my earlier statement about them) and say that they contracted out to the lowest bidder. That's why they no longer say Japan on them. Profit was more important than quality. Make no mistake, Japan is still years ahead of the other Pacific rim mfgs........
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
So a NF NXS, SS, Bushy HDMR's, Huskemaw's are the same, since they're all made in the same Japanese factory? Not so sure they are all made in same factory. What's more, I believe NF designs their own scopes. Well they are. As to your "NF designs their own scopes", that was my point with the binocular marketers...they do the same thing.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343 |
So Trevor, while we are being "straight up and honest", I would like to know if ALL your rifle scopes (don't care where the other optics are made) are made by the same (one) mfg. and/or if they are made by LOW.
It's no real secret to those in the know that LOW produces some "big name brands", and that they are capable of producing some very fine products.......
Absolutely correct, no big secret. The Toric, Tekoa, and Turion riflescopes are all coming out of LOW. Toric and Tekoa Bino's coming out of Kamakura. As for ED glass, 15 different and counting for me in my career. Also why we go so far to be open about the glass and where its coming from.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 343 |
[quote=JGRaider]
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura? I will tell you right now: Anyone who thinks the German/Euro makers haven't pulled their hoodies over their heads and ducked into the Japanese glass plant for a shopping spree is misinformed at best..... I can confirm that. Was part of a transition plan for one of them in a former life.
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 343 |
[quote=JGRaider]
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura? Many companies who claim "made in ....." don't have the glass made there, or quite frankly, some of the components. Very common now actually, a lot use Schott but say "made in US".
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Thanks for confirming who makes your scopes. I appreciate the honesty. And for getting this thread back on tract.....
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
[quote=JGRaider]
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura? Many companies who claim "made in ....." don't have the glass made there, or quite frankly, some of the components. Very common now actually, a lot use Schott but say "made in US". Agreed. However, Schott does make some glass in the U.S. though, do they not?
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343 |
Thanks for confirming who makes your scopes. I appreciate the honesty. And for getting this thread back on tract..... anytime...and wish I had a drum and symbol right now 
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
[quote=JGRaider]
Khales say Austria on them, Does the glass come from Komachura? I will tell you right now: Anyone who thinks the German/Euro makers haven't pulled their hoodies over their heads and ducked into the Japanese glass plant for a shopping spree is misinformed at best..... The good schitt still comes from Schott in Germany though. Victory HT's&SF's Everything Swaro Leica (not sure on the new stuff) Meostars
Last edited by WRO; 07/11/16.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
Do you have anything a little more rock solid internet Heresay? That being said, they do look amazingly like a Japanese OEM glass.
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