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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Picked up some 200gr LSWC bullets and was thinking of trying Titegroup. The pistol is a Norinco 1911. Has anyone tried TG in the 45? Nope. Nobody ever. I'll bet there is nothing in load manuals either. Seriously, where do all these shlt-for-brains come from that ask these questions?
Last edited by dla; 07/26/16.
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Cartridge : .45 Auto (ACP) (CIP) Bullet : .451, 200, HP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 17.604 grain H2O = 1.143 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.275 inch = 32.39 mm Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 16498 psi, or 113 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 55 % These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lovex D036 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 80.9 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum ! Fiocchi F-Rex brown 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 81.0 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum ! Accurate No.5 53.1 8.9 0.58 1000 81.0 16498 3794 0.656 ! Near Maximum ! Hodgdon Longshot 54.7 8.9 0.58 995 86.2 16498 3672 0.659 ! Near Maximum ! Winchester 540 53.4 8.9 0.58 994 86.5 16498 3663 0.659 ! Near Maximum ! Ramshot True Blue 54.2 8.9 0.58 994 86.3 16498 3663 0.659 ! Near Maximum ! PB Clermont PCL 504 55.0 8.9 0.58 993 86.3 16461 3655 0.660 ! Near Maximum ! Ramshot Zip 47.8 6.5 0.42 961 99.5 16498 3015 0.669 ! Near Maximum ! Winchester 231 53.2 6.5 0.42 961 99.5 16498 3015 0.669 ! Near Maximum ! Ramshot Silhouette 55.0 7.8 0.50 960 90.4 15149 3411 0.687 Rottweil P804 55.0 7.0 0.45 957 100.0 13993 3294 0.732 Hodgdon HP38 47.1 6.4 0.41 956 99.8 16498 2947 0.669 ! Near Maximum ! Winchester WAP 55.0 7.8 0.50 956 89.9 15041 3393 0.689 Rottweil P801 55.0 6.3 0.41 952 100.0 16022 2818 0.699 ADI AP 70N 55.0 6.4 0.41 949 98.7 14982 3202 0.713 Hodgdon HS-6 55.0 8.8 0.57 948 81.3 14644 3442 0.699 Lovex D032 43.7 5.9 0.38 947 98.2 16498 2933 0.665 ! Near Maximum ! Fiocchi F-Rex green 43.7 5.9 0.38 947 98.2 16498 2933 0.665 ! Near Maximum ! Fiocchi F-Rex red 53.7 5.9 0.38 942 99.6 16498 2799 0.666 ! Near Maximum ! Lovex S011 53.7 5.9 0.38 942 99.6 16498 2799 0.666 ! Near Maximum ! Alliant BULLSEYE 55.0 5.9 0.38 938 93.2 14496 3232 0.700 PB Clermont PCL 501 55.0 7.8 0.50 932 87.9 13705 3358 0.723 Hodgdon TiteGroup 42.5 5.6 0.36 926 100.0 16498 2524 0.679 ! Near Maximum ! PB Clermont PCL 506 55.0 6.3 0.41 923 94.6 13482 3257 0.748 PB Clermont PCL 514 53.8 4.8 0.31 898 100.0 16498 2251 0.680 ! Near Maximum ! Maxam CSB 5 55.0 4.9 0.31 889 100.0 15553 2232 0.701 Vihtavuori N310 48.8 4.6 0.30 886 100.0 16498 2123 0.694 ! Near Maximum ! ADI AS 50N 55.0 5.2 0.34 885 100.0 13824 2577 0.747 Vihtavuori N320 55.0 5.2 0.34 878 100.0 12872 2551 0.756 PB Clermont PCL 509 55.0 5.8 0.38 875 97.8 12734 2711 0.759 Accurate Nitro 100 55.0 4.7 0.30 875 99.9 13699 2490 0.738 Lovex D013 55.0 4.7 0.30 875 99.9 13699 2490 0.738 Hodgdon Universal 55.0 5.7 0.37 875 96.6 12214 2881 0.791 Rottweil P803 55.0 6.5 0.42 874 95.8 10729 3125 0.824 Somchem S221 55.0 9.3 0.60 873 66.8 11784 3200 0.794 ReloadSwiss RS 12 55.0 6.0 0.39 870 98.1 11007 2984 0.827 Maxam CSB 4 55.0 5.0 0.33 870 100.0 13367 2427 0.743 Somchem MP200 55.0 6.6 0.43 868 87.3 11989 2940 0.783 Lovex S015 55.0 4.9 0.32 868 100.0 13872 2367 0.736 Accurate Solo 1000 55.0 4.9 0.32 868 100.0 13872 2367 0.736 Fiocchi F-Rex yellow 55.0 6.2 0.40 867 91.7 11873 2869 0.782 Lovex S020 55.0 6.2 0.40 867 91.7 11873 2869 0.782 Vihtavuori N330 55.0 5.8 0.38 861 96.2 11118 2812 0.791 Alliant GREEN DOT 55.0 5.0 0.32 855 99.7 12570 2494 0.784 ADI AS 30 55.0 4.6 0.30 848 100.0 13435 2187 0.763 Maxam CSB 3 55.0 5.1 0.33 846 98.8 12072 2465 0.779 PB Clermont PCL 515 55.0 5.8 0.38 844 93.4 11710 2627 0.789 Accurate No.2 55.0 5.9 0.38 844 85.7 11979 2658 0.775 Alliant RED DOT 55.0 4.4 0.29 844 100.0 12653 2268 0.784 Somchem MS200 55.0 5.8 0.38 829 88.9 11020 2666 0.818 Nitrochemie P2636 Ws 55.0 6.0 0.39 822 89.1 9720 2728 0.829 Accurate Solo 1250 55.0 5.3 0.35 818 94.0 10812 2469 0.812 Maxam CSB 2 55.0 5.4 0.35 817 97.4 9590 2651 0.859 Norma R1 55.0 4.5 0.29 817 100.0 12318 2033 0.808 Alliant UNIQUE 55.0 5.8 0.37 816 85.5 10073 2744 0.858 Vihtavuori N340 55.0 5.9 0.38 815 86.7 10448 2603 0.824 Alliant POWER PISTOL 55.0 7.1 0.46 810 65.3 9790 2797 0.844 Rottweil P805 55.0 4.4 0.29 804 100.0 11797 1998 0.826 Maxam CSB 1 55.0 5.2 0.34 786 92.8 9961 2313 0.848 Vihtavuori 3N37 55.0 6.9 0.45 782 73.6 9001 2575 0.877 Lovex D037.1 55.0 9.6 0.62 775 51.9 8544 2659 0.879 Accurate No.7 55.0 9.6 0.62 769 51.6 8413 2625 0.884 Vihtavuori N350 55.0 6.5 0.42 755 72.2 8374 2380 0.903 ReloadSwiss RS 24 55.0 8.0 0.52 751 54.7 8357 2411 0.896 ReloadSwiss RS 20 55.0 6.0 0.39 747 76.7 7796 2388 0.907 NitroKemia REX 1/Red/28 55.0 4.8 0.31 739 89.9 8592 2058 0.891
Cartridge : .45 Auto (ACP) (CIP) Bullet : .451, 200, HP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 17.604 grain H2O = 1.143 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.275 inch = 32.39 mm Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm Powder : Hodgdon TiteGroup
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 30 4.00 728 235 8880 1889 98.5 0.912 -18.0 31 4.10 741 244 9275 1936 98.8 0.894 -16.0 32 4.20 755 253 9680 1982 99.2 0.876 -14.0 33 4.30 768 262 10095 2026 99.4 0.859 -12.0 33 4.40 781 271 10519 2069 99.6 0.843 -10.0 34 4.50 794 280 10954 2110 99.8 0.827 -08.0 35 4.60 806 289 11398 2150 99.9 0.812 -06.0 36 4.70 819 298 11852 2189 100.0 0.797 -04.0 36 4.80 831 307 12316 2226 100.0 0.782 -02.0 37 4.90 843 316 12791 2262 100.0 0.768 +00.0 38 5.00 855 325 13275 2299 100.0 0.754 +02.0 39 5.10 867 334 13769 2335 100.0 0.741 +04.0 39 5.20 878 343 14274 2371 100.0 0.728 +06.0 40 5.30 890 352 14788 2407 100.0 0.716 +08.0 41 5.40 901 361 15313 2444 100.0 0.704 +10.0 42 5.50 912 370 15849 2480 100.0 0.692
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 38 5.00 878 343 15153 2233 100.0 0.712 Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 38 5.00 820 299 11378 2349 98.7 0.808
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263 |
TG works fine as do many more stated here. When pistols powders were hard to find I got back to loading 45,s 200gr with Red Dot , for got how well it really worked. Damn close to same specs as Bullseye ....and don't forget Clay's
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,517
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
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TG works fine as do many more stated here. When pistols powders were hard to find I got back to loading 45,s 200gr with Red Dot , for got how well it really worked. Damn close to same specs as Bullseye ....and don't forget Clay's Seen Alliant now has clay dot , which is supposed to be "same" as Hodgon clays
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
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Yep.
Clays. If you put in the time working up loads with your match grade pistols, it can be amazingly accurate. Pinpoint.
Great Lot to Lot consistency to boot.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,517
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
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Yep.
Clays. If you put in the time working up loads with your match grade pistols, it can be amazingly accurate. Pinpoint.
Great Lot to Lot consistency to boot. Never used any , hows it meter ?
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
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Yep.
Clays. If you put in the time working up loads with your match grade pistols, it can be amazingly accurate. Pinpoint.
Great Lot to Lot consistency to boot. Never used any , hows it meter ? Never had any problems.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
TG works fine as do many more stated here. When pistols powders were hard to find I got back to loading 45,s 200gr with Red Dot , for got how well it really worked. Damn close to same specs as Bullseye ....and don't forget Clay's I used Clays for 230 gr cast for a while because it was all I could find. Switched to AA5 and have never looked back.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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AA5 is another very good one. Works in a lot of cartridges well.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,628
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yes, AA5 is a good powder, but for me, it's been impossible to find for the last 2-3 years & still is.
The other stuff I mentioned has been readily available.
MM
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Saw a bunch of it in Cabela's. If you want to pay their prices.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
AA5 has been available here but non of the other powders have been on the shelves for a long time.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It is still crazy. Better, but not like it used to be. If this election goes the wrong way...look out.
My motto since 2008 is If you see it, buy it. Not to hoard, but to have for me and my sons just in case.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 21,317 |
I finally took the plunge last year and ordered 50#'s of powder from powder valley. While I would have preferred bullseye and unique, I have enough universal to cover my handgun needs for some time. Just need to get in a good supply of lead for casting, and a few more primers.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 370
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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It is still crazy. Better, but not like it used to be. If this election goes the wrong way...look out.
My motto since 2008 is If you see it, buy it. Not to hoard, but to have for me and my sons just in case. That is exactly how I saw it back when I realized that John McCain could not beat the Messiah. I bought three cases of 22 LR's, 10 cases of primers, and 50 pounds of powder. Since you can't get any interest on your money at the bank, convert it to ammo or reloading supplies to maintain value. I have traded bricks of 22 ammo for three times the value of what I paid for it and during the primer shortage, have had people BEG me to sell them some small rifle primers at 4 to 5 times what I paid.
Last edited by BobWills; 07/27/16.
Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems.
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Posts: 718
Campfire Regular
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Were more .45 ACP shooters to try Titegroup, Bulls Eye would become obsolete. Ha, in your dreams. Don Well, I gotta agree that it was a stretch. Bullseye is good powder. However, after trying Titegroup once, I was sold. I believe I use about 5 grains with a 200 SWC target bullet. It's clean burning with consistent accuracy. The reality is the .45 ACP is such a versatile cartridge that many powders work well in it. I used to use Unique exclusively for target loads. I still have about 3 pounds of Unique left, but I doubt that I'll move from Titegroup for low end target loads.
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OP
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Were more .45 ACP shooters to try Titegroup, Bulls Eye would become obsolete. Ha, in your dreams. Don Well, I gotta agree that it was a stretch. Bullseye is good powder. However, after trying Titegroup once, I was sold. I believe I use about 5 grains with a 200 SWC target bullet. It's clean burning with consistent accuracy. The reality is the .45 ACP is such a versatile cartridge that many powders work well in it. I used to use Unique exclusively for target loads. I still have about 3 pounds of Unique left, but I doubt that I'll move from Titegroup for low end target loads. I was actually thinking of starting at 5 as max shows as 5.4
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Joined: Jun 2016
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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The reality is the .45 ACP is such a versatile cartridge that many powders work well in it. So true. Don
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think you have to work hard to find a fast to medium burn rate handgun powder that won't work well in the 45 acp.
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boomer68,
I posted that w/o looking at my loading notes. I'm guessing that I'm using 5 grains of Titegroup with 200 grain lead SWC. I know it's not more than that; however, it might be less.
Bullseye is very good powder. It has a very similar burning rate as Titegroup. In honest analysis, Titegroup is the better of the two. However, I can see how some loaders will remain loyal to Bullseye. Unique is probably more versatile than Titegroup, but it meters poorly. I've heard and read only good stuff about Power Pistol in the .45 ACP, but I think that Power Pistol is mostly used for max loads. But don't quote me on that one. I don't load max, except for .357 Mag, and that's not many. A sleeper powder that might be better than Titegroup is Longshot. However, most of the stuff I've read about Longshot concerns the .40 S&W.
I use 3 grains of Titegroup with 158 grain LSWCHP bullets in .38 Special loads. It's extremely fun to shoot, very low recoil, and extremely accurate.
There are many new powders. Lots of folks are reluctant to change. And there might not be reason to change. If it ain't broke...
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