|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 240
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 240 |
Whats the difference in model 20 and a savage super sporter.. or are they the same ? And if different is one any more collectible than the other ?
Last edited by kdog; 07/27/16.
Work hard ... play hard
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,089
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,089 |
The 1920 is basically a Mauser action, with front locking lugs on the bolt and shortened to fit the Savage rimless cartridges. Overly simplified, but that's it in a nut shell.
The 40/45 is an entirely different beast. Rear locking lugs in a tubular receiver, with a detachable magazine. Not at all like a Mauser.
Most will say the 1920 was a superior design, me included. But both serve their owners well.
Both have been extinct since before WWII. You decide if they are collectible or not. With 99's, rarity and condition drive the collector's market. Ditto 1920's and 40/45's. We shooters use different guidelines, sorta.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 07/27/16.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292 |
As gnoahh said. They are about as similar as the Remington 688 is to the 700. Each have their admirers. I like both but with the 20 rapidly falling into the realm of collectabilty find the 40/45 very interesting from the perspectives of affordablilty and shootabilty.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,289
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,289 |
Whats the difference in model 20 and a savage super sporter.. Model 20-"Oooolala!" Model 40-"Meh..."
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,351
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,351 |
In my somewhat limited experience with both guns, the Model 20 has sleek, graceful lines which are pleasing to the eye while the lines of the Super Sporter kind of resemble a bolt action shotgun....
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 240
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 240 |
Thanks .....So a super sporter is a model 40 ,,,,,,Ran into a super that is pretty clean and in a 250-3000,,,never heard of one before ,,,typically stick with the 99's
Work hard ... play hard
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,686
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,686 |
Whats the difference in model 20 and a savage super sporter.. Model 20-"Oooolala!" Model 40-"Meh..." I'll take a meh anytime. As well as the ones I have had shot, why not. Still way better than some of the newer stuff....
____________________________________________________________ Dying gets closer every day
Lloyd McCarter and the Honky Tonk Revival
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Whats the difference in model 20 and a savage super sporter.. Model 20-"Oooolala!" Model 40-"Meh..." Yeah, the 1920's were one of the first short action, lightweight bolt rifles. Somewhat ahead of their time. Not easily scoped, either. I have a couple of .300's. One was D&T for a sidemount, so its value is for a shooter. The other was Eurobubba'd with an octagon barrel. The first one shoots well, wish it were a .250, even with a slow twist.
Last edited by tex_n_cal; 07/28/16.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292 |
Whats the difference in model 20 and a savage super sporter.. Model 20-"Oooolala!" Model 40-"Meh..." Yeah, the 1920's were one of the first short action, lightweight bolt rifles. Somewhat ahead of their time. Not easily scoped, either. I have a couple of .300's. One was D&T for a sidemount, so its value is for a shooter. The other was Eurobubba'd with an octagon barrel. The first one shoots well, wish it were a .250, even with a slow twist. I do believe that the 20 was the first domestically produced commercial Mauser based bolt rifle. Though I have never been sure if being ahead of your time has been a smart business move. History is full of companies that folded due to being ahead of their times.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,176
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,176 |
Thanks .....So a super sporter is a model 40 ,,,,,,Ran into a super that is pretty clean and in a 250-3000,,,never heard of one before ,,,typically stick with the 99's Super Sporters can be either a Model 40 or a Model 45. The 45 is just a deluxe grade 40, the difference being that the 45 came with checkering and a Lyman #40 peep sight. Since Savage had a lot of success with the 19 and 23 "Sporter" series, an enlarged "Super Sporter" that could be chambered for longer cartridges seems like a logical marketing move. The 40/45 were priced lower than the 1920s and they sold more units, but you've got to wonder if the greater success was due to the 40/45s being chambered for the 2 most popular cartridges of the day, the 30-30 and 30-06. Savage made a few long action 1920s in 256 Newton, 7x57, 30-06, and even 303 British. The origin of the 1920 was Savage's attempt to offer the U.S. and British governments optional main battle rifles during WW1. The U.S. chose the 1917 Enfield, already in production as the P-14 in 303 British and easily modified to work in 30-06. The 1920 in 303 British looks like a hybrid of the SMLE with a 1920 receiver. The 7x57 rifles were intended to be sold to Central and South American countries as a replacement for the Remington Rolling Blocks and the pre-1898 style Mausers that were widely in use.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,575
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,575 |
Savage made a few long action 1920s in 256 Newton, 7x57, 30-06, and even 303 British.
The origin of the 1920 was Savage's attempt to offer the U.S. and British governments optional main battle rifles during WW1. The U.S. chose the 1917 Enfield, already in production as the P-14 in 303 British and easily modified to work in 30-06. The 1920 in 303 British looks like a hybrid of the SMLE with a 1920 receiver. The 7x57 rifles were intended to be sold to Central and South American countries as a replacement for the Remington Rolling Blocks and the pre-1898 style Mausers that were widely in use.
Tell us MORE Jeff!!! Do we have examples of these lurking amongst this group!?!
Last edited by JeffG; 07/28/16.
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"
JeffG
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,167
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,167 |
I sure would like one in 256 Newt, Joe.
I'm not greedy, I just want one of each.
Remember Ira Hayes
JoeMartin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,176
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,176 |
Savage made a few long action 1920s in 256 Newton, 7x57, 30-06, and even 303 British.
The origin of the 1920 was Savage's attempt to offer the U.S. and British governments optional main battle rifles during WW1. The U.S. chose the 1917 Enfield, already in production as the P-14 in 303 British and easily modified to work in 30-06. The 1920 in 303 British looks like a hybrid of the SMLE with a 1920 receiver. The 7x57 rifles were intended to be sold to Central and South American countries as a replacement for the Remington Rolling Blocks and the pre-1898 style Mausers that were widely in use.
Tell us MORE Jeff!!! Do we have examples of these lurking amongst this group!?! No, I've seen these rifles, but have never owned one. The late Mark Benenson offer the 256 Newton sporting rifle to me, but before we could make a deal, he sold it to a man in Texas, John Smyrl. Mr. Smyrl died and the rifle ended up in Wyoming with the well known Newton collector, Bruce Jennings. Mr. Jennings died and his daughter sold his rifle collection and I've lost track of it. The 7x57 and 303 British rifles were rough, machine shop work, that were in the R&D collection. I believe that Peter Dowd in Massachusetts bought them at the R&D collection auction and they ended up at the Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, Maine. The 303 British rifle pops up on GB from time to time, but I don't know anyone who would want it bad enough to pay the asking prices that I've seen. The 30-06 looked like a 1903 Springfield with a 1920 action. It was nicely finished, the sort of well polished rifle that marketing people like for samples to show potential customers.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292 |
There were two examples up on GB for a real long time. I haven't checked, but they may still be there. I'm not interested in either and judging on the amount of time they were posted I don't think I'm busting any rules on active auctions.
PS - Just checked and both are still up for sale. One is a .303 and the other a 7x57. Bunch of good pictures and, if you have 9500 bucks, you too can be an owner. Again, I don't think I'm busting any live auction rules as they have been on GB for well over a year so nobody is racing to the finish line on either.
Last edited by S99VG; 07/29/16.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,575
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,575 |
Thanks! Those are an interesting bit of savage evolution...can't say I'm interested in donating that much to history though.
I have noticed those going back...a year?, or more...$9500 and missing the bolt!!
..anyone have a spare long action 1920 bolt?
Last edited by JeffG; 07/28/16.
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"
JeffG
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,292 |
I suspect for that much scratch they will be up for sale for a long time to come!
PS - would it be violating any rules or laws to download pictures of these rifles into a sticky? They are rare firearms and very relevant to this forum.
Last edited by S99VG; 07/29/16.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
|
|
|
|
122 members (450yukon, 260Remguy, 300_savage, 6MMWASP, 2ndwind, 14 invisible),
1,702
guests, and
987
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,756
Posts18,476,379
Members73,942
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|