One might wonder if the theory that President Franklin Roosevelt had a foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack would have been alluded to in this summer’s movie, Pearl Harbor. Since World War II many people have suspected that Washington knew the attack was coming. When Thomas Dewey was running for president against Roosevelt in 1944 he found out about America’s ability to intercept Japan’s radio messages, and thought this knowledge would enable him to defeat the popular FDR. In the fall of that year, Dewey planned a series of speeches charging FDR with foreknowledge of the attack. Ultimately, General George Marshall, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, persuaded Dewey not to make the speeches. Japan’s naval leaders did not realize America had cracked their codes, and Dewey’s speeches could have sacrificed America’s code-breaking advantage. So, Dewey said nothing, and in November FDR was elected president for the fourth time.
Now, though, according to Robert Stinnett, author of Simon & Schuster’s Day Of Deceit, we have the proof. Stinnett’s book is dedicated to Congressman John Moss, the author of America’s Freedom of Information Act. According to Stinnett, the answers to the mysteries of Pearl Harbor can be found in the extraordinary number of documents he was able to attain through Freedom of Information Act requests. Cable after cable of decryptions, scores of military messages that America was intercepting, clearly showed that Japanese ships were preparing for war and heading straight for Hawaii. Stinnett, an author, journalist, and World War II veteran, spent sixteen years delving into the National Archives. He poured over more than 200,000 documents, and conducted dozens of interviews. This meticulous research led Stinnet to a firmly held conclusion: FDR knew.
Just the fact that we had cracked the Japanese Naval Code months before Pearl Harbor is extremely compelling evidence that FDR knew when and where the Japanese were going to attack us.
Some historians have contended that if only the Army and Navy intelligence officers, and perhaps State Department officials as well, had found the time to analyze all the intercepts as a group, they would have discerned a pattern that pointed to Pearl Harbor. This argument resembles one that Roberta Wohlstetter made in her book Pearl Harbor: Warning and Decision, in which she holds that the noise of the false evidence drowned out the indications of the true signals: ‘We failed to anticipate Pearl Harbor not for want of the relevant materials, but because of a plethora of irrelevant ones.’ This is wrong. There were no true signals, no clear indications of the attack.
The fact is that code-breaking intelligence did not prevent and could not have prevented Pearl Harbor, because Japan never sent any message to anybody saying anything like ‘We shall attack Pearl Harbor.’ The ambassadors in Washington were never told of the plan. Nor were any other Japanese diplomats or consular officials. The ships of the strike force were never radioed any message mentioning Pearl Harbor. It was therefore impossible for the cryptanalysts to have discovered the plan.
What, then, is the answer to the joint congressional committee’s question? What about that ‘finest intelligence’? The simple answer is that, fine though it was, it was not fine enough. Perhaps if the United States had established intercept operators in the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo to obtain enough messages to make a solution of JN25b more likely, or had been able to buy a spy in the top circles of the Japanese government, or had been able somehow to fly aerial reconnaissance regularly above the island empire–then perhaps there might have been a chance that the Pearl Harbor attack would be detected in advance. None of these things could have been easily done. Even if they had, discovery of the plan would not have been certain. Japan had successfully closed all openings through which foreigners might gain information about its intentions. The real reason for the success of the Pearl Harbor attack lies in the island empire’s hermetic security. Despite the American code-breakers, Japan kept her secret. For Americans, the Rising Sun rose in eclipse.
You can believe and eat all the baloney you have to believe and eat to believe propaganda. Facts are clear: FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked and allowed it to be attacked. He had been trying for years to dupe Americans into another bloody European war.
SAKO- I felt a bit like you did after reading 'some'. You keep citing one book- try another - A Man called Intrepid. May not entirely change your mind but might expand the horizon of what happened. Worst case you will read a fascinating tale of extraordinary people. I do agree with you on the disgusting treatment of the Poles by all parties and think Poland is the overlooked hero nation of the 20th century.
I used to wonder- Why didn't the Brits just accept Hitlers peace offer after the Nazi's conquered France? I blamed Churchill and Roosevelt for our involvement and extending the war - and the Germans could have taken out their real enemy, the Soviets. It isn't that simple.
FDR was faced with the tough world choices of having either a Soviet Europe, a Nazi one or an allied one. In any case Hitler declared war on the US. Stupid and making everything else rather moot.
Lastly- for one more example of total screw up thinking - how about repeated Japanese Bonzai charges.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
WWII was a continuation of WWI. Germany never surrendered in WWI. France with GB to a lesser extent imposed onerous burdens upon Germany that became fatal with the Great Depression. France was a huge cause of WWII.
GB was a substantial cause of WWII. Chamberlain appeased Hitler at the Munich Conference. Chamberlain thought that he had assured peace. Churchill knew he had just assured war. Chamberlain should have killed Hitler when he had the chance.
The Soviet Union was never a threat to Europe. But for Russia's harsh winters -Hitler didn't learn from Napoleon's fatal foray- Hitler would've killed Stalin, which would have been a huge benefit. The USSR de facto ended WWII with huge help from Mother Nature and the Lend-Lease Act. There was no need for us to become involved in Europe's war
The ideal response to Operation Barbarossa would have been for the Allies to transport every Nazi soldier to the USSR and told the two to fight it out. If the winner still felt like fighting, to call Churchill.
Under no circumstance should we have ever allied with Stalin. After all, Stalin and Hitler were illusory allies. Stalin really was a moron for making a deal with the devil. Stalin thought that two devils working together were better than one. They had signed the Non-Aggression Pact. Stalin thought that he was going to split Poland with Hitler. FDR had a sinister motive for allying with Stalin. Churchill knew it. He feared FDR because of his close relationship with a psychopathic tyrant.
Operation Barbarossa began in June of '41, six months before FDR allowed the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor. FDR ought to have negotiated with the Japanese, who were willing to pull out of China and Pacific Islands. Japan did not want to go to war with us. FDR gave Japan no choice, and he knew it.
At the Atlantic Conference of August of '41, Churchill and FDR agreed on war objectives, which was 4 months before FDR duped Americans into a war they had wanted to avoid. So how did FDR know we were going to become involved in Europe's war? BTW, the main purpose of the Atlantic Conference was the configuration of the world post-WWII. Both knew in Aug '41 that Germany was not going to win. What FDR and Churchill wanted was to control the world, and they knew that they were going to do it.
Germany and Japan were allies. After we declared war on Japan, Germany declared war on us. Who the eff cared? What the hell was Germany going do to to operationalize its declaration of war? German couldn't whip the inept Stalin, and it declared war on us? Hitler really was a moron, which was why many within Germany, including Rommel, tried to kill him. Hitler's generals knew, especially after Operation Barbarossa, that Germany was in a war it could not win.
King Paul von Hindenburg appointed Hitler chancellor. He thought that he could control Hitler. von Hindenburg was 84. He died shortly thereafter. Contrary to myth, Hitler was never elected to anything. Most Germans hated Hitler. Maybe 30% of Germans were Nazis. The nouns are not synonymous. But for France, Hitler would have never been able to coalesce Germany's far left, which cause von Hindenburg to appease Hitler and Germany's boisterous far left.
WWII was the product of ineptitude, either intentional or feigned. It could've very easily been avoided. There should have never been an Axis Powers. Italians wanted no part of il Duce, nor did Italians want part of the Axis Powers. Italian soldiers repeatedly refused to fight. When il Duce decided to invade Greece, Italian soldiers and Greek soldiers ate dinner together. Neither wanted to fight.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." ---FDR---
Was WWII planned to happen? According to FDR's belief, it sure as hell was.
I'll have to disagree with your belief that FDR was faced with tough decisions. I think that he was an elitist who was more like Hitler than an American patriot. FDR wanted to be a major player in shaping the world, which was wholly antithetical to the concepts of our Founding Fathers. But FDR assuredly thought that he was far more omniscient than Thomas Jefferson and the rest of our Founding Fathers.
FDR willingly acquiesced to Stalin and sacrificed thousands of America soldiers' lives at Normandy. He willingly sacrificed over 300,000 American soldiers in a war that should have been avoided. But private bankers of the Federal Reserve, backed by assurance of the 16th Amendment, made huge money off of dead American soldiers in a war we should have avoided.
BTW, I was taught upper division WWII history at the beginning of higher education's transition to revised history. Now I wouldn't believe half the garbage that's taught in most American universities.
I am aware of causes and can even agree with some of what you say. WWII certainly picked up where WWI ended in large degree. Many of the points you make are would have, should have though. Kind of history through knowledge of it not dealing wit hit at the time.
A couple of points. If Russia was no threat to Europe I think the Poles would beg to differ. So might the Finns -don't you think? I think many within Russia who suffered under the hand of Stalin during his rise might argue it as well. A paranoid leader isn't going to sit idle.
Most Germans hated Hitler? Certainly late in the war this was likely but early on I think most of the populace eagerly supported him. Films were propaganda but even in Austria he was welcomed as a hero when they annexed. Can't blame them too much given the world view of Germany and their eco-condition prior. I do know that bis declaring war on us convinced many in his high command their fate was sealed. See Rudolph Hesse in this regard.
Germany may not have been able to do much to operationalize its war against US but it forced US hand to reciprocate. That meant all the activity in the Caribbean, South America and elsewhere could now be done in the open as well. The war was a World wide one. If we had not supported Britain through lends lease many more German submarines would have been available to raise havoc right off US shores.
FDR knew we would go to war because quite frankly by that time we were already at war. Just covertly. Hitlers declaration made it moot.
Another question, is it your contention we should not have denied Japan access to oil and steel etc???
-good Sunday morning to you SakoAv
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
This book might've been revised since I've read it to comport with political correctness. It did have good stuff in it, especially about lack of Germans' support for Germany's radical left that Hitler was able to transform into the National Socialist German Workers Party, known to all as the Nazi Party.
GB & France should have smacked Hitler back to the Stone Age the second he marched into the Rhineland, Hitler's first act of aggression. Had they done so, there would have been no WWII. So why would you suppose that GB & France acquiesced to Hitler's blatant violation of the Treaty of Versailles?
From memory alone, I believe Hitler had no more than 29% support of German citizens. Yes, most Germans hated Hitler. The Nazi Party in Germany was a minority. However, it seized control trough intimidation carried out by murder of German citizens who had refused to acquiesce to Nazis.
We had tried to help Germany with unconscionable reparations foisted upon it by the Treaty of Versailles with the Dawes Plan. Again, most Germans wanted no part of the Nazi Party. The Great Depression put an end to the Dawes Plan.
I doubt that Stalin would have touched Poland without Hitler's help. Keep in mind that Poland never surrendered to Hitler. Stalin's military was a joke. Regardless, it would've been Europe's problem, not ours.
The USSR was grossly inferior to other European countries in industrial capacity. If Stalin had attempted to expand, it would have been Europe's problem to resolve. GB alone could have wiped out Stalin. Stalin murdered most of his top military officers in his purges. Stalin was Stalin's worst enemy.
Germany was allowed to become a threat for a reason, however illusory that threat was. The story behind the story was money and power.
No. We shouldn't have denied Japan access to natural resources it needed as long as it pursued them legitimately, a concept foreign to England during the Industrial Revolution. Japan has virtually no natural resources. Every country has right to engage in commerce. We engage in international commerce. Should another country determine what natural resources we can buy or sell?
A declaration of war is meaningless if the declaring country can't act on its declaration.
GB & France declared war on Germany on Sept 3, '39 & did not a damned thing to prosecute their declarations. They could have stopped Hitler then. Why didn't they? What use was their declarations?
Who cares that Germany had declared war on us? Hitler had to because of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. But Hitler did not want the USA in the war. Thanks to Operation Barbarossa, he was hanging on by a thin thread. The realty of the Battle of Britain has a huge awakening for Hitler. The Battle of Britain, which was actually a draw, proved to the world that Nazi Germany was a paper tiger. So what heck was Hitler going to do after his declaration of war? Was he going to cross the Atlantic en masse and invade us? How do you think that would have worked out for him?
Remember, ken, that our Founding Fathers had admonished us to refrain from interventionism. James Madison said that fighting foreign enemies would bring tyranny and oppression to the country created by our Founding Fathers. Madison was absolutely right. We are not a free people, the predictable result of fighting wars that were none of our damned business. Worse, all but three our our wars were false flag wars, and of the three we should have fought, one was also a false flag war. But I'm good with it because it gave us the American West.
Were we to revoke the Federal Reserve Act and repeal the 16th Amendment, we wouldn't fight any foreign wars. Our military was intended to protect the USA and only the USA. I would not be surprised should a president decide to invade a country and our generals defy him. The most powerful man of any country is the man who controls its military. Our president controls our military because our military allows him. The second our military decides to defy our president, the person controlling our military will become the most powerful person in our country.
The REAL reason Truman fired MacArthur was because he feared him. Truman believed that MacArthur had become more popular than he. But what if MacArthur had decided he wasn't fired and, the military backed him? What would have been Truman's options?
Being the authentic conservative that I am, we have to stop sacrificing American soldiers' lives in bullshit wars that have nothing to do with the security of the United States of America. No country in the world can defeat us. However, we can destroy ourselves. And we're rushing headlong towards destruction. We have one foot over the precipice of insolvency and the other on a banana peel. As James Rickards wrote of in Currency Wars the next snowflake that falls upon our economy might be the one that causes the avalanche that causes our financial collapse.
Another good angle, and assuredly the angle that is least discussed, would be to Google Scholar, "Financiers of WWII." The money trail is always good to identify. Who's making money off of dead American soldiers?
From a moral and patriotic standpoint, our soldiers' lives are not for sale in worldwide conflicts. However, should a country become a credible threat, we'll make it a glass parking lot.
Donald J. Trump is not an interventionist, which is one of the reasons liberals and neocons fear him. He's going to screw up their plans of world domination, which is THE precursor to the New World Order, AKA: one-world-government.
If the uncharged felon is elected, she will sacrifice more American soldiers' lives in a bullshit war with Iran.
BTW, ken, there is no proof that Hitler wanted to conquer the world. Hitler wanted lebensraum, and he identified the USSR for it. In contrast, there is a whole lot of proof that Stalin wanted to conquer the world. So why in God's name did FDR ally with that punk, ex-con, criminal thug Stalin? After what the Red Army did to innocent German citizens, especially women and girls, we should have kicked the holy chit outta the Red Army and hanged Stalin in Red Square.
If you're able to find them, Churchill's correspondence with FDR will shed light on the British prime minister's concern about FDR's bromance with Stalin. Churchill thought FDR was a moron. I think FDR was a traitor and a moron.
Sir, I'd like to invite you to contemplate this: the Cold War was a farce, that the Soviet Union was decades behind American technology.
It took the USSR 24 hours to arm and launch an ICBM. It took us 15 minutes. We could've wiped out the USSR before it could've responded.
However, were we to examine the money trail, the military-industrial complex and its financiers (private bankers of the Federal Reserve) made a whole lotta $$$ off of Americans' fear that the Ruskies were gonna have us dancin' the kalinka.
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." ---US President James Madison, author of the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights---
Madison was right. We are not a free people. We're allowed to do only that which government approves. And it sure as heck looks like government is fixin' to not approve of private ownership of guns, unless, of course, Donald J. Trump is elected 45th President of the United States of America.
Biggest screw-up was the failure of an Army Air Corps B-26 crew to toss a Naval Reserve officer from Texas out of their plane during his "combat mission".
Biggest screw-up was the failure of an Army Air Corps B-26 crew to toss a Naval Reserve officer from Texas out of their plane during his "combat mission".
This is the best so far!!! I know who he's talkin' about!!!
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
Biggest screw-up was the failure of an Army Air Corps B-26 crew to toss a Naval Reserve officer from Texas out of their plane during his "combat mission".
This is the best so far!!! I know who he's talkin' about!!!
a MAJOR +1 on that.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
Sako - appreciate the polite discourse. I do agree with some of what you say but am not quite ready to accept all of that. In fact isn't much of what you say exactly why Hitler hated Jews? Same argument. Not that saying that nullifies your points.
As for the Russians they had the first man in space so I feel that some bit of the talk of our superiority is hubris. Some. Heck illiterate VC gave us hell. We might have military superiority, just as Napolean or Hitler did, but Russia (if not the Russians themselves) -or Afghanistan for that matter- is next to impossible to compeletely subdue. We do agree on the point that we are most likely and most often...I won't say defeated....call it ...denied victory.. by ourselves than any foreign power.
Anyway- we sort of derailed the topic. Let me think of another WW2 screw up. How about trying to use Me 262's as bombers?
Although actually I kind of get the thought behind that.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
ok I thought of one more told to me by a friends Dad who found it raucously funny.
According to Mr B. the Germans trained shepherds as anti tank dogs for the battlefield. Cluelessly suicidal nazi dogs trained to put magnetic mines on to tanks. Mr B said the problem was they trained using German tanks so in battle the dogs were blowing up the wrong tanks.
Mr B laughed so hard he fell asleep within minutes. Don't know if it is coincidence but Mr B's son also told many stories and was as full o sh*t as a Christmas goose
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
Biggest screw-up was the failure of an Army Air Corps B-26 crew to toss a Naval Reserve officer from Texas out of their plane during his "combat mission".
This is the best so far!!! I know who he's talkin' about!!!
It details exactly how Lyndon B. Johnson was commissioned as a Naval Reserve Officer, and how he used the position to further his career. Johnson was a stone cold coward and as corrupt as anyone who ever worked in D.C.
It is a very interesting and enlightening book.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
ok I thought of one more told to me by a friends Dad who found it raucously funny.
According to Mr B. the Germans trained shepherds as anti tank dogs for the battlefield. Cluelessly suicidal nazi dogs trained to put magnetic mines on to tanks. Mr B said the problem was they trained using German tanks so in battle the dogs were blowing up the wrong tanks.
Mr B laughed so hard he fell asleep within minutes. Don't know if it is coincidence but Mr B's son also told many stories and was as full o sh*t as a Christmas goose
That was actually the Russians who did that. Russian tanks were diesel and German tanks were gas. The dogs ran to Russian tanks or back to their handlers.
They started out by starving the dogs then Feeding them under a tank. Idea was the hungry dog would spot a tankand run under the tank for a meal with the mine on his back. No schidt! Problem was the dogs didn't know German tanks from Russian ones.
Last edited by kaywoodie; 07/31/16.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
