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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,418
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,418 |
I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that. Well this is interesting considering we've had the Nosler Partition since about 1945-1950.which killed about everything world wide from that point on,and from such anemic cartridges as the 270 and 7x57 as well...... So if you had a brain and were heads up from 1950 on, you didn't have to use a C&C bullet if you didn't want. I am amused by those who think the use of dinky cartridges for BG hunting is some kind of recent phenomenon.In fact it's been going on for years,way back to the turn of the last century. Anyone remember Bell and all those elephants? And Bitterroots and succeeding bonded bullets like Swift and TBBC have been around since the late 60's to early 70's. These are fully as good as the best out there today from a terminal standpoint on the biggest, and toughest animals on the planet. So I have a hard time discerning when the Good Old Days ended and the New Age began. (?). I think it depends on when you started hunting and how much attention you paid. If your head was stuck up your ass in the 1980's you mighta missed a major phase of the whole bullet development thing. Not that things aren't great today in the bullet department,but I have never seen anyone handicapped with the best of what was available 30-40 years ago. You just have more choices today and more to get confused about. You can tell by all the "which bullet should I use?" threads.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,816 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,816 Likes: 4 |
Hate speech! (aka truth)
Gotta get to my safe space, pronto.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Hate speech! (aka truth)
Gotta get to my safe space, pronto.
Pappy I guess it's human nature for people to think all the great advancements took place only since they started paying attention....which mighta been yesterday or last year. Which is why history of advancements is important. I tend to view these things as an ongoing continuum, instead of taking place in the time frame of people's personal reference. Some of the stuff you read on here you'd think everything is brand new just because someone recently figured it out....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that. Well this is interesting considering we've had the Nosler Partition since about 1945-1950.which killed about everything world wide from that point on,and from such anemic cartridges as the 270 and 7x57 as well...... So if you had a brain and were heads up from 1950 on, you didn't have to use a C&C bullet if you didn't want. I am amused by those who think the use of dinky cartridges for BG hunting is some kind of recent phenomenon.In fact it's been going on for years,way back to the turn of the last century. Anyone remember Bell and all those elephants? And Bitterroots and succeeding bonded bullets like Swift and TBBC have been around since the late 60's to early 70's. These are fully as good as the best out there today from a terminal standpoint on the biggest, and toughest animals on the planet. So I have a hard time discerning when the Good Old Days ended and the New Age began. (?). I think it depends on when you started hunting and how much attention you paid. If your head was stuck up your ass in the 1980's you mighta missed a major phase of the whole bullet development thing. Not that things aren't great today in the bullet department,but I have never seen anyone handicapped with the best of what was available 30-40 years ago. You just have more choices today and more to get confused about. You can tell by all the "which bullet should I use?" threads. Wow. I don't use monometals much, but from what I can tell a lot of guys have dropped down in bullet weight to get higher velocities, flatter trajectories and very good terminal performance. If the Partition was the be-all end-all, Barnes Bullets wouldn't exist.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 12
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,149 Likes: 12 |
There were some decent bullets even before John Nosler started selling Partitions commercially in 1948. The original Core-Lokts were pretty tough, and the Peters Inner-Belted was apparently even better, since it was sort of a semi-Partition.
But because Nosler Partitions were a LOT more expensive than other bullets available for handloading (including the also-new Hornadys, Sierras and Speers) most hunters didn't become aware of their advantages until Partitions started appearing in factory ammunition--because not as many hunters handloaded back then.
Even then the word didn't get out much because Weatherby was the first company to load Partitions in their factory stuff, and both Weatherby rifles and ammo were expensive. Eventually Federal started loading Partitions in some common cartridges, and in 1978 Bob Hagel published his book on handloads for American hunting, touting the Partition and Bitterroot for larger big game. That's when more hunters really started becoming aware of "premium" bullet performance, and more premiums showed up.
Even the Barnes X appeared in the late 1980's, but the early models had real problems, which is why many shooters didn't discover the "magic" of monometals until the TSX break-through in the early 2000's.
Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000. And entirely missing from the discussion is bullet placement. Which seems irrelevant in a discussion of which bullet to use, until you recognize that some very savvy hunters use "target bullets" like the Scenar for better bullet placement.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,816 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,816 Likes: 4 |
Not to mention all those fancy German bullets
I just dug out my (second) copy of The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns and turned to the page with the photo of all the sectioned bullets. I'd say things weren't all that bad way back when, from a killing-power standpoint at least.
I remember reading (not sure exactly where) Old Jack's description of the original 130gr bullet for the .270. Seems like they got it pretty much right from the get-go with that one. Wonder if anybody's got some of those lying around?
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,101 |
I like "vintage" stuff because I'm a nostalgic kind of guy. I do it because it's my choice, and I recognize that there's a helluva lot of new(er) gear out there that outstrips my stuff by a long shot. So be it. I will admire/appreciate new technology, and like to learn of it, but in the end I adopt that which fits my needs and leave the rest to those whose needs are best fulfilled with it. But in the end, we all benefit from technological advancements, whether we know it or not.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
Dang, a curmudgeon with perspective, how'd that happen?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Wow. I don't use monometals much, but from what I can tell a lot of guys have dropped down in bullet weight to get higher velocities, flatter trajectories and very good terminal performance.
If the Partition was the be-all end-all, Barnes Bullets wouldn't exist.
Who needs Barnes? If you look back in Nosler's advertising of the day(likely further back than most on here are aware) ,one of the things the advertising promoted was the ability to drop down in bullet weight,obtain higher velocity and flatter trajectory,,and get the same or better penetration. The same was said about the Bitterroot as more folks came to use them but that number was never large....more of a cult following because you just could not get them.But they led directly to Swifts, TBBC, and Northforks of today. They also allowed you to drop bullet weight,get more velocity and flatter trajectory and were deadly....based on what I've seen of both, quicker killers than Barnes. I am not the only one who thinks that way.....friends who have extensive experience with both, agree. Folks familiar with them know this. You can live a long, happy and successful hunting life and never use a Barnes. Actually Id take a NF over anything else out there today for the biggest stuff,before I'd grab a Barnes.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
You can live a long, happy and successful hunting life and never use a Barnes. Yes, I understand. As I said earlier, I don't use them. And the very same thing can be said about the Partition, A-Frame, or any other bullet for that matter.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,930
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,930 |
There were some decent bullets even before John Nosler started selling Partitions commercially in 1948. The original Core-Lokts were pretty tough, and the Peters Inner-Belted was apparently even better, since it was sort of a semi-Partition.
But because Nosler Partitions were a LOT more expensive than other bullets available for handloading (including the also-new Hornadys, Sierras and Speers) most hunters didn't become aware of their advantages until Partitions started appearing in factory ammunition--because not as many hunters handloaded back then.
Even then the word didn't get out much because Weatherby was the first company to load Partitions in their factory stuff, and both Weatherby rifles and ammo were expensive. Eventually Federal started loading Partitions in some common cartridges, and in 1978 Bob Hagel published his book on handloads for American hunting, touting the Partition and Bitterroot for larger big game. That's when more hunters really started becoming aware of "premium" bullet performance, and more premiums showed up.
Even the Barnes X appeared in the late 1980's, but the early models had real problems, which is why many shooters didn't discover the "magic" of monometals until the TSX break-through in the early 2000's.
Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000.
From what I read of the old writers the Peters Inner Belted was one whale of a bullet. Substantially better than the very good Core-Lokt for penetration.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
we've barely touched the + 1/2" market so i'm thinking theres still a lot of room for growth. i vote for the .750 CB cap.
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,155 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,155 Likes: 13 |
I keep hoping CCI will start loading Partitions in their CB short ammo so I can kill pigs deader. I'm patient but the years are creeping up on me, so I hope they do it soon.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
I keep hoping CCI will start loading Partitions in their CB short ammo so I can kill pigs deader. I'm patient but the years are creeping up on me, so I hope they do it soon. Over-penetration.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
The portable, reliable, inexpensive and easily-procured laser rangefinder was a huge step forward, and in fact was the necessary piece of gear to get the whole long range hunting thing up and rolling like it is now.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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