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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,661
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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Ruger SP 101 3", have the DA trigger worked. The grip will fit her very well and it will be easy to shoot.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,033
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,033 |
Partner had his wife out trying out a new G43, it intimidated her, a new shooter, and the brass kept hitting her in the face...
The slide was heavy to operate for her. She grew very tired with it...she is that petite. Your partner didn't do his wife any favor, starting her out like that. What the hell was he thinking? Should have started her on a .22 revolver.
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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To clarify, this will be carried in her purse and car, size of the gun, I agree, too small is too light and too much kick/flip, but she has very small hands. Like Bob's student, this little lady is about 5ft and 95 wet, so she has little recoil tolerance. Willing and able to get range time.
Had her shooting at 10 yds but a regular large red bull....
I agree a bit closer (though that particular range 10 yds is the shortest distance.....
On the Gold Dot recommendation, I have seen that it in the 90gr is the top touted load in the 380. Not sure any test results I have seen in snubbie 38s do as well or better. I would have expected more. I personally think a 3 to 3.5" is where she needs to be for size of grip, weight to hold, and yet enough weight to moderate recoil/muzzle rise. Again the G42 was spitting brass in her face, not so with her husband who has much stronger grip/wrist/arm strength. He thinks she can just get used to the 9 in the 43, but I am not sure she will, the slide is tough for her to rack, I assume a 42 is easier, that is the one she wanted initially, he just wanted to standardize ammo and have the extra power....
On the 317, nifty little gun, just little confidence in 22, thought she shot a Buckmark Camper well for punching paper, she has the fundamentals, but it's easy how quickly the G43 frightened her with the flip, blast, and brass attack. Lol.
Appreciate all the post and welcome others. One gun size does not fit all as we know.
I do agree also on the simplicity of a revolver, or at least a no safety semi as a safety can get one in trouble when most needed, for SD. Assuming one can monitor access to non-owners. Safety is always top priority. Yes, racking the slide is key if an owner is able to work a semi start to finish, or reload if need be.
Thanks again folks. Others welcome as always.
Just my opinion - she's better off with that Buckmark Camper than a G42 if she's recoil sensitive. Either one needs careful shot placement anyway, and she'll be more accurate and shoot faster with the Buckmark, with more confidence too. Teach her to aim for the face and shoot till the threat drops; it'll get the job done.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,520
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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Beretta 21. Tell her to shoot for the nuts, clavicle notch and everything in between if she can't get those.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Pal, We had her shooting 22 Ruger and Browning to start, but I need to drag out the Bearcat  Yondering - I hear you, a mag emptied in the face said nobody, ever! Sarge, sounding Surgical!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,070
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,070 |
1st problem. Long hard trigger pull on most semis DAO..If a single action, most won't want to carry it cocked and locked.
2nd problem. Most common AD's are by people who don't shoot a lot or don't know better. They think by dropping the mag,the gun is unloaded and they forget about the one in the chamber.
3rd problem.Almost every small subcompact carries a hefty recoil whether it is .380 up to 9mm.
4th problem. No one will go out and buy a 22 to start off with.They want the gun they will end up with.
5th Problem. Although I would not want to be shot with one, a 380 has about 250 ft lbs of energy, 38 sp,just breaks 300 and a 9mm is above all that.
Problem solver.Get a Lady Smith,38 Sp. Have the trigger worked on to smooth it up and lighten the pull for double action. Put a set of Hogue grips on it or a Crimson Trace set of laser grips. Practice with 148 gr target wad cutters and carry loaded with Speer Gold Dot 38SP +P for short barreled revolvers.
Problem here is most are too cheap to outfit their significant other with something that they will be willing to carry and shoot.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
My wife claimed my dad's .38 Cobra 2' and my .32 S&W Regulation Police 3". She is deadly with either.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866 |
My buddy's wife is also a tiny thing (about the same 5' and 95 lbs). She doesn't shoot a ton but he's a cop so she gets to practice more than some, perhaps. Enough not to be intimidated by the noise, anyway.
He originally got her the Ladysmith .38 and she DID NOT like it. More recoil and the reach was too far for her little hands. They sold it and got her a Shield which she just loves....or did till he decided it made a nice BUG whilst on duty! I've been talking him into getting a Glock 26 for himself and giving her back the Shield.
Don't know the differences between slide tension for the Shield and 42/43 but she sure like the Shield and had no problems with it.
Just another story to consider....
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,298
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,298 |
I bought my wife a 3" 65 Smith because she liked mine and I wasn't ready to give it up. Then one day she shoots my Sig 239 (9mm) and now that's what she carries. So now I have two 3" 65-5's, and no 239. 
Black Cows Matter!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
More good options, what bullets do you 38 owners use? I know +P and I've read various stats....the 158 Lead HP is supposedly the best, but I was thinking a lighter bullet for less recoil to try, and assume the 110-125 would be less.
Re: energy, yes the paper figures are what they are on the rounds, yet I have read the better 380 bullets, and I suppose the 38s as well can penetrate decent. That's key if one carries them, assuming you shoot well with whatever one carries. Many good options.
I wonder how a say 3" small 38 like a M60 or SP101 kicks w/+P loads vs a 380? I assume still less than G43 or Shield in 9?
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972 |
I think I would add a laser if going with a short barreled revolver. I would let her train with the lightest loads available,then load it heavy for SD. You might check the sight difference but I doubt it would matter in a real situation.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752 |
You've got lots of options if she's strong enough to rack a slide. Locked-breech guns will be easier than blow-back. Otherwise, a small revolver would be best.
A 3" steel J-frame in .38 (.357) with wadcutters or even .22 should be doable for almost anyone. Laser grips will let her practice, especially DA, in the living room and let her see how the gun shifts when the hammer falls. If she can handle it the .38 would be better, of course, but you gotta go with what she can take. I carry a .22 myself almost all the time after packing a .38 around for a while. If I think I might really need it, the .357 comes out, but that's rare.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
I've had several female students that due either to an injury, age or just lack to noise/recoil tolerance settled on the Beretta Model 84 Cheetah .22. Can be carried as a traditional DA first shot semi-auto or carried Cocked and Locked like a 1911.
As to a .22 for self-defense...it has worked just fine for a lot of people... The last three shootings I had in LE were all .22s and everyone was incapacitated very very quick..
The Cheetah is hard to find now but is worth looking for...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 |
M&P 22 ![[Linked Image]](http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/222000_01_md.jpg) M&P 9mm ![[Linked Image]](http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/109251_01_md.jpg) Great pair for the lady.
NRA Life Member
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Interesting Bob, like to hear more about any details on the 22 shootings, bullet used, placement, etc. I would guess it was up close and personal, and shot placement decisive. I had a 70s and Astra Constable both 22. Reliable and accurate, as much as the ammo. Never had a misfire/fail to eject with a CCI that I can recall, others on occasion have - what ammo do you recommend in 22? I would think MiniMags and Stingers would be at the top. I like PowerPoints - how they perform on impact, but wonder about reliability, especially since the mfg has changed.
Agree on the slide racking, if unable one needs a wheelgun, if not a tip up Beretta. Good info folk
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Interesting Bob, like to hear more about any details on the 22 shootings, bullet used, placement, etc. I would guess it was up close and personal, and shot placement decisive. I had a 70s and Astra Constable both 22. Reliable and accurate, as much as the ammo. Never had a misfire/fail to eject with a CCI that I can recall, others on occasion have - what ammo do you recommend in 22? I would think MiniMags and Stingers would be at the top. I like PowerPoints - how they perform on impact, but wonder about reliability, especially since the mfg has changed.
Agree on the slide racking, if unable one needs a wheelgun, if not a tip up Beretta. Good info folks, thanks.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,752 |
Based on tests I've read lately and some laundry soap I shot 30 years ago, a Stinger, or 7 or 8 of them, should be pretty discouraging to a malefactor. Other good choices might be the CCI fragmenting loads at about the same velocity, or the Velocitor which though much slower, mushrooms really nicely.
Actually, in short-barreled revolvers, Stingers are about as fast as .22 mags, with lighter bullets of course. The soap I shot years ago showed similar holes from both rounds.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 582
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 582 |
My daughter carries the Browning 1911-22 in the 3 3/8" barrel. She is about 5'4" and 105lbs. With a Crossbreed holster, it conceals very well on her.
My wife carries a Walther P-22.
Neither of them like, or tolerate, recoil very well, so the .22's get the call.
For ammo, in the summer, it's got CCI Stingers in it. In the winter, the first shot is the Sub-Sonic Sniper round from Aguila, followed by the Stinger, then the SSS, Stinger, etc.
Aguila claims the SSS round can penetrate up to 2 ft of ballistic gelatin, at 200 meters.
I have shot enough small game with the Stingers to have a lot of respect for that round for defensive purposes against 2-legged problems. When we go into the mountains (Colorado), I load them with the SSS round, figuring they need all the penetration they can get if confronted with an animal.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
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Supercrewd, nice pair, ammo savings help pay for it - thanks. Good info on the 22 ammo, thanks. The 380 at a 70% stopping power seems much more reliable than the 34-40% of the 22. Not to get caught up in stats, but they are relevant. I carried an Astra Constable years ago, figured a mag full of Mini-Mags would do someone no good
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