Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Who prefers a Smith 357/41/44 over an auto for a full size SD gun?

Elmer Keith wrote a section on revolvers vs autos in his book "SIXGUNS"....I have the book but haven't read it in a while.

Elmer makes the case for the revolver being superior for SD and everything else but he still had a high regard for the Government Model and Smith DA autos.

I don't think many gun writers today would agree with Elmer.

It has to be taken within the context of the time. At the time he wrote that book, today's autopistols weren't even in someone's fevered dreams, those pistols mentioned were all that were available, except for some foreign stuff from WWII.

The new pistols available today can rival any revolver's reliability, and I suspect are less likely to need a tune-up or rebuild before even a good Smith roundgun.
Context is important. Can a Smith N-frame go crazy numbers without getting beaten to crap like a Glock or M&P (or a good 1911, for that matter)?
No, they don't operate at the pressures that a Magnum operates, but there's sure some wear and tear on 'em, and we won't even talk about getting out of time, or having the yoke get stretched.
I like sixguns heaps, but my eyes are wide open on the subject.

Bill Jordan and Charles Askins went at it over the same topic in the gunrags of the 60's. It was standard fare that drove subscriptions and news-stand sales.

N frames (even 357's) had a tendency to batter the end of the crane in high volume shooting, remedied by either stretching the cylinder arbor or installing shims to correct headspace. I suspect some of this was behind the 'durability package' Smith introduced in the 90's.

I have also been known to bust a trigger pin or in fast DA work with heavy loads in a 4" Model 29-2.

Old and set in my ways - 4" Model 19 - not saying it is superior, just that it and I fit each other well.

You're 100% right on target. Semiautos have fewer moving parts.

I'd go with a good-quality semiauto being more reliable than a good-quality revolver.

SARGE, you mention Jordan...I believe he coaxed S&W into the M19. It was his idea, the logic of being able to practice with low cost, easier on the gun, .38 Specials and load heavier .357s for duty....

The lighter than N Frame M19 was Jordan's idea of the perfect duty revolver.

Thats my reasoning for mid range reloads in my Rugers although I think the Security Six will probably take more magnum loads than the M19. FWIW, the Pa State Police (state troopers) adopted the 4" stainless Security Six with Pachmayr rubber grips before they switched to the Berretta 92 when LE went to high cap autos.

I saw at least a dozen deer shot with 357's in my first couple of years of handgun hunting and 'marginal for deer' summarizes my opinion of it succinctly. This was before the advent of decent hunting bullets like the 180 XTP. I switched to the 44 mag and later, the 45 Colt. A 255-325 grain bullet with a big flat nose, trundling along 900+ fps is easy to shoot well and hardly notices a 350 pound animal got in its way. The animal definitely notices.

i prefer a J frame 38 +p in a pants pocket.

Hawkeye, when I draw my Smith it is natural for me to cock the hammer as the gun is leveled.. Comes from years of shooting SA revolvers..
Youndering, I was not trying to start an argument.. Too much of that here already.. It was merely my thought in my situation of which do I need, the accurate first shot, or the extra rounds of the Glocks.. I usually have both handy in a vehicle..

No argument. I'm just pointing out, it's not an either/or thing. There's no reason you can't have both. A little dry fire work will go a long way.

If you can't shoot well with a G21 or G19, it's you, not the gun. (Well, possibly the ammo or something really messed up with the gun, but you get the idea.) That's not an insult, just plain facts.

No doubt.. But the question was would you prefer a Smith over an auto for full size gun.. I would because I shoot one better than I shoot autos.. Could be for about 50 years I have been shooting Rugers and Smiths...

I can shoot the autos, but for me it is not as natural as the others.. I am not likely to get into a gang situation where I live, and the paths I travel I try to avoid potential trouble spots as much as I can...

BS.

For me, Glocks are the most evil fitting of virtually all handguns; 1911's the best.

Foolishness.

That's all about what you've practiced with and are used to; not that you're a special cupcake and 1911s or whatever "fits you better". Same for revolvers.

Anyone here who's actually qualified to give any advice should be able to pick up any decent handgun and shoot well with it; if you can't, that's a personal skill limitation and not a virtue of a particular gun being better.

Practice, people. Fix your limitations with skill, not hardware.

Very good feedback. I agree on the 357/125 comment above on 2-legged. On deer, I've dumped deer with a 1050 mv load using a M29 and 240 hardcast SWC, and a 357 using 158 - though in a rifle.

No doubt on deer bullet selection is key, and shot placement matters, as with any round. In a handgun I would tend to use a 41 in a revolver on deer, but 44 Sp or RM, and 45 Colt would do just fine. If using a 357 Handgun, I would shoot heavies, likely a 180. Layne Simpson seemed to dote on the 180 Federal HP load......out to 100 yds or so. A 10mm would make me happy in a semi.

But back to SD....whatever one picks, indeed one darn well would behoove them to get very familiar with it. I agree with others, some areas, "Capacity/Firepower" is not as much a concern in normal day to day situations, but environments and situations vary. And we see change occurring over time....so it surely sells many hi-cap and more ammo.

Then again, as to Single Action vs DA mode on a revolver, well odds are a person very experienced has time to cock If they want as they draw it out, but up close and personal a DA is perhaps best on the first. As to a well-place shot vs capacity, well, just like hunting, it's always best to make your best shot, your 1st....but being prepared to continue follow-up as necessary. The 357 fans - (I see alot of fans of K-frames - Bill Jordan loved the M19) - well when a bad guy takes a decent hit, they usually lose interest. Cannot argue the stats.

I think what would maximize the effectiveness of semi users, especially those who use high capacity handguns, is to make all shots count, and not let ammo substitute for placement. It's easy for shooters to spray and pray and we see that even in LE situations, a mag is dumped fast under stress, rightfully so, but the more you connect the better.

Talked to a local cop friend recent, he was just picking up a P320 for duty, it came with several mags, some very high capacity. His off-duty carry is a P250 in his pants. His research on actual shootings indicate not alot of difference in a 9, 40, and 45 on the "stretch Cavity" so he just goes for capacity, and the plan to double-tap every time, as it's the only sure way to put someone down he said. Now I would fathom this is for the three semi rounds above. A 357 can be 90+ percent with better ammo.

Not a one size fits all for many reasons. Many good posts here, with what works for each individual. I do like and see pros/cons to both platforms, depending on the situation.

I am kind of a revolver guy first. Having said that, i have been in situations where there were multiple "issues", and that is where you start thinking hi cap
second thought, i often most of the time use a revolver single action for first shot, just habit.
an old instruction told me that it's a question of hitting your target not spraying.
I also have 200 and 230 grain pills for 357, which gets them in the weight and velocity of some of these other rounds if one wanted to go that way.
a lot of it has to do with skill level. I know more than one person that would not be at any disatvantage with a revolver against most people with a semiauto.
Having said all the above, i am going to be most likely going out on the desert in the next few days. Most likely along with the shotgun for doves will be a glock 17, and a couple spare mags Problems are often found now in groups.

...and a folding stock AK47...

On the note on "Heavies" in 357, will standard S&W's spin them well? I know twist varies in the industry on handguns.

Bob, a Fella could do worse in some situations then to have a good long gun when available no doubt.

Yes, S&Ws will spin heavies well.. I have shot several different 300s from my 57s/657s and they were all accurate. Never heard anything bad about 300+ grain bullets in a .44 either...

When I travel I usually take a Scout Rifle with me. Used to take a Remington 700/.308 but have now switched to a Ruger GSR as it has a 3/5/10 round detachable magazine. Some of the states I travel in have gotten real hard on "assault rifles" and this is just as effective and not quite as "noticeable"...

Bob