Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors New guy with question about selling...

I took ownership of four pre-64 model 70's from my Grandfather 13 years ago. I held these guns precious to me until my Grandma passed away a little over a year ago. For some reason, the sentimental value of these guns diminished with her passing. I never had the intent to sell and I never had the intent to use them. I am, now, to the point of pondering whether I should let them go and be appreciated by someone else. They sit in my safe, nobody sees them, at all, except for the occasional wipe down.

A little history, my Grandpa went to Africa in 1970 and 1971. The .375 H&H and the .300 H&H were heavily used and kind of shows it. The .300 Win mag, I believe, was only used on one trip and is in beautiful condition.

The .458 was bought in 1972 or 1973 and my Grandpa was going to take a third trip and try to take an elephant but every thing got put on hold as the country he was planning on going to made it hard with the protection of elephants, at that time. He never made it back for that third trip. This gun sat in his gun cabinet for 30 years until he passed in 2003. He or no one else has fired this rifle since he bought it in the early '70's.

I am a gun enthusiast. I own many. It, for some reason, feels sacrilegious if I shoot these. Like I said, they just sit in my safe and maybe it is time to part with them. I have had offers on the .375 and the .300 Win Mag but turned them down. I have a son but cannot leave these guns to him when my time comes to head for the great hunting grounds. So, I sit in ponderance not knowing quite what to do.

I once knew the years that these guns were built (well, other than the .458), but have since forgot. I pretty much know the value. My question is, what is the best way to sell these, if I so decide to? I have bought guns from Gunbroker.com. Never sold through them. Is that the best way? Something like that .458, it just seems like I could find a guy that would really want one, beings they are, somewhat, limited. I guess what I am saying is, it almost seems chinzy selling something like that on an online auction. Guys that buy classic cars go to classic cars shows. It's a lot of cash to part with for a great rifle like this, even though, it has some minor flaws.

I will try to put some pictures up here, for what it's worth, but no promises as I am knew here.

.458 Win Mag





Will spare you of the others. The only one that I would believe is in collector condition is the .300 Win. Mag, and I may be mistaken on that as I am no expert, but my biggest concern, although, I would sell all or none of these, is the .458 Win Mag.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any advice or input given.

Gunbroker, penny auction, no reserve. You will make many peoples watch list with this technique and as the auction nears completion these folks WILL NOT let a gun sell for $1 less than it's value, especially a pre-64 Winchester.

I would be watching.

donsm70

I would be watching too. Probably not buying, as I know the value of the 458 is above my pay grade...

Bowhunter, you've been registered on this site since my b-day. About time you posted something. You have a very beautiful rifle there. I am not understanding why the rifles have lost value since your grandmother passed away. Seems your intention was to wait until she passed and then not feel guilty about selling your grandfathers loved/cherished collection. Now on to your 458 supergrade. It appears that rifle was made from late '59-1963 because of the ventilated recoil pad used. Rule states, "many of those serial numbered above 460,000 feature the ventilated style" recoil pad. If that rifle is original, it should be worth approx. $8,000.00-$9,000.00+... Post some pics of the other rifles you are thinking about letting go to someone who will "appreciate" them more. Thanks..

Being a gun enthusiast, I'd sell every other firearm I owned before I'd sell ones left to me by my Grandad. Especially such grand examples such as those. And what better way to honor him than to use them? (gently) To me, it would be more sacrilegious to sell them.
I just had my late fathers M-70 to the range to give my nephew (his grandson) an opportunity to shoot it. It brought back great memories of days gone by.

Just My Opinion, Your Mileage May Vary

That .458 is a beast! And a pretty one too! Given its history, I'd never let it go.

Yours are some very desirable rifles. If you do decide to sell them, please post the links here - I will definitely be watching!

My Grandfather died the year I was born. He was a hunter and a shooter and loved double guns which I also have an affinity for. My Grandmother sold all his guns to support herself and my mother. I can't fault her for that but I would give anything to have one of Grandpa's shotguns.

If you do decide to sell these please post it here. You will receive a fair price and they will go to true Winchester collectors who will appreciate them. I lack only the 300Wm and the 458 from completing my collection of all 18 std chamberings so I'll be watching as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

bsa1917hunter- It may seem like that, but no, that is not the deal. I'm thinking I registered around a few months ago and my Grandma passed in June of 2015. I was just never sure if I wanted to post these questions.

You all bring up great points and all points that I've thought of. I know what I have. When I received these rifles in 2003 I researched them all. I had the right to sell at any time, not just after Grandma died but I kept thinking "They made 1,200 of these .458's, I have one, if I part with it I will never own another one!"

I could probably get myself to use the .300 H&H. That one is a Super Grade but shows some wear. the .375 H&H I have no use for other than Grandpa killed a lot of African beasts with it and, actually, it has a small crack in the wrist of the stock. But, anything like elk, I bowhunt for and will not be going to Alaska anytime soon.

The .300 Win Mag is nearly flawless to my eye, but like I said, I'm not an expert.

That gets me to the .458 Win Mag. Yes, I could keep it in my safe until I die, but then I wonder what happens? My kid has no interest in guns, in fact, not even sure he can legally be around them let alone own one. I've just wondered, for years, if it wouldn't be more appreciated by a collector. I don't need the money. I don't need more room in my safe. It is cool owning the gun but what does it matter if nobody can appreciate it just sitting there in the dark for another 30 years?

But, with what most of you have said, it does get me thinking again about once I get rid of it, I'll never own another. I registered a few months ago wondering if I should ask my original question but never was really sure. I guess I'm still not really sure. I, suppose, that to sell a gun like this I had better be completely sure.

Thanks for the input!

You definitely need to be comfortable with your decision whatever that may be. Like you said once there gone there gone for ever.

I have asked myself this question of sell or don't sell as well. It can be a tough question.

I'd be watching/buying as well. The 458 looks to be in pretty good/collectable shape still. I'd be curious to know the serial number range to get a date of manufacture. It looks like the bolt is not jeweled which was common on the later super grades.

Good post. Thanks for taking the time to explain your situation and feelings on the subject. If I were you, I'd sell the 458 win mag, 300 wm, and keep the 375 H&H. It sounds like your grandfather loved that one the most. Like I've told people, 375's were bought to be used, the same can be said about the 270's. For some reason, those are the ones I see with the most wear and tear on them. If your 300WM is as clean as you say it is, it will bring close to $3,500.00 when the market is strong. I'd probably also keep the 300H&H, as those are sweet shooters and won't knock the hell out of you like the 300WM. This is how I'd roll if I were in your shoes:

Keep these:
1. 300 H&H
2. 375 H&H

Sell these:
1. 458WM supergrade: $8-$9,000.00
2. 300WM: $3,000.00-$3,500.00


Possibly sell the 375H&H. Gunner500 has been looking for one

Post pictures of that rifle here and we can give you a fair value for it. I'll tell you this right now, most 375's have busted/cracked stocks. That's why mine is in a McMillan!!!!

Like I said earlier, it could have been made from '59-'63, but it would be nice to have the serial # range. Usually the first 3 digits followed by XXX is all that we need. Something like this: 476xxx

.458 serial #481XXX

I was pretty close... . Yours was made in 1960

Couple more pics...
.458







It has these four or five small marks in the bluing. I'm not sure what caused it or where they came from.
[img]http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag111/arniejl/15_zpsfbq7qlqs.jpg[/img]

.375 H&H

.300 Win Mag




.300 H&H. This one I could hunt with, and maybe, someday, I will.

Do you have the swivels that came with the 458?

Bottom metal does not appear to be original to the gun, all that I've ever seen have been stamped SUPER GRADE....

Great collection. Poconojack, it almost looks like the bottom metal on the 458 is aluminum?

I'd love to own that 375, I've been looking for one that needs a new stock. I have a mint condition 375 that I can't bring myself to hunt with.

The 300 looks to be in great condition as well.

The question I would ask myself is what is going to become of the guns once you are gone?

They will become the property of your estate and could be sold for next to nothing to some peddler looking to double or triple his money. Let's face it, your wife and kids probably don't give a damn about those guns.

If you don't have a clear prospect in your family that wants to keep the guns: you are going to do yourself and your family a tremendous favor selling them before you leave this earth because you are probably the only one in your family that knows the monetary value of them.

And that way you can leave this place knowing the guns went to somebody that knew the value of the guns and is going to appreciate and enjoy them.

Like Fireball said: If you decide to sell them, take lots of pictures and start them .01 no reserve. The right guys are going to see them and they will probably go for crazy money.

JMO

The floor plate on the 458 looks like an anodized aluminum fwt. floor plate. It does need the correct supergrade floor plate for sure, or the price should be adjusted since it would have to be changed... I also WOULD NOT list these on gunbroker with a penny start and no reserve like some of these guys are mentioning here. You'd be much better off selling to one of these good guys here at a fair (to both of you) price. That, or list it on gunsinternational. Again, not gunbroker.

OP can do what he wants. It don't matter to me.

But he certainly doesn't want himself and his family to get paid too much for the guns and won by one of the bad guys bidding on gunbroker.

I'm sure he will rest a lot better when he's dead knowing one of the "good guys" from the campfire got the guns, at a "fair" price...

Jeez

No problem. If it were a savage 99, I could see starting the bid at a penny...

You know, I may have them. I have a couple boxes of stuff that I also got. Do not, specifically, remember seeing them but they may be in there.

I wondered about that floor plate. Seemed kind of weird. Good catch! I know my Grandpa never had anything done to this gun. He must have bought it like this. Wonder why they would have changed it out? Bummer, but nothing I can do about it.

I, also, have many boxes of older ammo that my Gramps had stock piled. Not sure how good it is but the brass would be beneficial to someone. It's kind of funny, though, there are sticker type price tags stuck to some of the boxes. Cannot remember for sure as it has been a couple years since I looked through it, but some of it was 6 or 8 bucks a box. I will never do anything with it. Some of it is starting to corrode and some is like new, well, as new as 40 year old ammo could look, I guess.

Thanks for all the input! I've learned some things here and appreciate the time that you guys took to respond!

There's nothing wrong with 40 year old ammo. If it's been stored some place that's dry and somewhat cool, it'll be as good as the day it was manufactured. There a market for it too.

Your grandad had some really nice stuff.

The floor plate is an easy fix. I wouldn't worry too much about it, you can find them on ebay from time to time..

Your 375H&H is interesting. I wish the pictures were a little better. I'd value it as such:

1. Receiver with bolt and bottom metal: $1,000.00
2. Original 375 H&H barrel: $1,000.00-$275.00 (lack of rear sight) and subtract $40.00 for lack of front hood: $685.00
3. Stock: Stock itself is damn near worthless, sling swivels and sling: $50.00
4. Scope and mounts: put it on ebay and see what they are worth????


Total: $1,735.00 + scope and mounts...

That 300H&H is awesome. Looks like it was made around 1950 +/- 1 year. Serial # probably around 150xxx. Obviously it is missing a front sight and hood, but a damn nice collectable rifle. Definitely has some wear. I'm betting it was one of your grandfather's favorites.. You can tell, he carried it and shot it more than the others. I don't blame him. I'm not going to give you an estimated value on that one because you should probably keep it and not be temped by the almighty dollar.

I understand why you broke it down that way BSA, but the thought of him parting out Grandpas rifle is just sad.
Following this thread, I could probably understand selling the .300 Win Mag because he really never used it. The two H&H's I couldn't see ever parting with. I would however have the crack in the .375s stock stabilized, and then use them both sparingly. The .458 I probably would keep also because it represents a dream he never got to realize......and it's just unbelievably cool! As to what to do with them when "the time comes". I'd be looking at other family members and/or close family friends who would be appreciative of not only the rifles themselves, but the history of them. Myself, I'd give them to someone who'd revere their connection to Gramps rather than peddle them for cash to someone who didn't give a darn. But here again, it's just my opinion.

Yep, easy fix for $400.00+ and one must also be very diligent as there are fakes out there....

Serial numbers:

.458 Win Mag 481XXX
.375 H&H 481XXX
.300 H&H 192XXX
.300 Win Mag 556XXX


Thanks again for the input. The reason I put all the serial numbers up here is for you to see how close you got, especially, on the .300 H&H

You know your guns!

Thanks again!

I did not take it from the way that he did that, that he was suggesting I part it out. I just took it as an overall estimate of what I have.

To your part about finding someone who would value this gun with connections to my Grandfather, well, this is why I started this thread. There is not really anyone.

My kid got into trouble at 15 years old. He cannot be around firearms. He can fix that but he is too lazy to do so. Also, our relationship is not good and, if he got the rifle, it would be sold immediately, in my opinion.

My brother would value them greatly! When my Grandpa passed he got a couple Colt pistols. One of which was owned by and found on the dead body of Harry Tracy. This is debated as someone else claims that they own the pistol. We have written documentation on it, for what good that does a guy. I asked my brother about it, challenging it, but he don't care much about it, anymore. I offered to buy the two Colts, years ago for $10,000 but he would not sell. If you want some good reading, google Harry Tracy. Kind of interesting being he is Washington's biggest outlaw, ever (minus Washington D.C. of course, could never quantify that). Anyway, my brother is older than I am. Cannot see leaving it to him. Plus his kid is a two time felon. Man, our family is dysfunctional.

These two pistols were owned by my Grandfather in upstate N.Y. He was a gun collector with over 300 at one time. He sold off and that is how my Grandfather, here in Washington State got that gun. The N.Y. Grandfather's name was William (Bill) Massey and was a big time decoy carver back in the day. If anyone here is from upstate N.Y. and hunted ducks, maybe you have heard of Grandpa Bill.

My cousin would be the only other that would appreciate the gun/guns, seemingly, but he is the guy that started his ploy of ending up with my Grandparents estate as soon as my Grandpa died. He started doing my Grandma's books for her and, in failing health, got Grandma to change the will and nearly everything ended up being willed to him. I gave him some stuff, years ago, that my Grandpa left me that I did not have any use for, and thought he did, as he seemed excited to get it. He sold it. He is a work of art.

Anyway, my dilema is just this. Who do I leave it too? Do I sell? I, actually, have a few friends who would cherish them but they are all as old as me, or close.

I'm in no hurry. I don't even know what to do. So, I'll take your input, all of it from everyone, and ponder it some more.

Thanks again.

Oh, I can get some more pictures up here if you want?

I'm in a similar position as you are. I have one daughter who couldn't care less about having one or more of "dad's" guns. It would get sold (probably for pennies on the dollar) to the first person who made an offer.

I'm in the process of cataloging all the guns and giving them a value as of today's current prices. Within that documentation are the names of trusted people to contact regarding selling them at a fair price.

I hope to be able to do this myself as I would like to have control over not only the price (I know what there worth and what I paid for them)but where they go. I'd like them to go to someone like myself who would appreciate them not just try to flip them to make a buck off my cold dead corpse.

If you decide to sell I think you have probably figured out by now that the people here would A) treat you fairly and B) They would go to other like minded folks who would appreciate them for the pieces of history that they are.

I realize it wasn't suggested you part it out, BSA wouldn't do that. Just using a part by part reference to it's monetary value gives me the willies.

bsa's right. $.01 starts with no reserve on Gunbroker are not a given. A .458 is not on everyone's radar and you would have to hope for all the stars to align. Right people watching, availability of funds, etc.

Myself, I would be hesitant to sell at all. If I were that worried about buggering the 2 really nice ones up, I'd only take them out on sunshiney days and possibly only to the range, but it's pretty likely they'd get shot some before leaving my stewardship.

The other 2 I would likely first offer here at a fair price to give true sportsman a chance to own them. That way, I'd at least know they were going to a good home and have a very reasonable good notion that they would end up doing what they were built to do.

BTW, that .458 is beautiful. But, if you're dead set on selling, I'd get that bottom plate replaced with a Super Grade to get your best and highest dollars out of it.

All of the above is JMHO.

tmitch, I'm not suggesting tearing the old rifle down at all. Sometimes it's easier for me to look at a rifle as parts. The actual value of the rifle may differ a small amount from the way I broke it down, but with one like this it's easier to visualize as parts and pieces. Like I said, I'd never part a cool old rifle like that one out. It still has many years left in it and it would be a shame to part it out. I'd find the right McMillan stock for that one and hunt the heck out of it. Kind of like I did with my 375 H&H.

I say sell the ones I mentioned earlier. Take your wife on a nice cruise, or do something you've always wanted to do. I don't think your family will appreciate the rifles the way they really need to be appreciated. I think your grandfather would be proud of you no matter what you decide. Remember, these are inanimate objects and we can't take them when we go. If there's no one to leave them to, it makes more sense to bank the revenue from selling them. I'd keep at least 1 rifle though, just for the memory and tie to your grandpa. I keep an old Fox sterlingworth shotgun my grandfather gave me, right before he passed away and when I pick it up or hunt with it, I always think of the good times we had. It sounds like you are a very level headed guy that will make the right decision. Thanks for sharing your beautiful rifles with us too...

[/quote]I say sell the ones I mentioned earlier. Take your wife on a nice cruise, or do something you've always wanted to do. I don't think your family will appreciate the rifles the way they really need to be appreciated. I think your grandfather would be proud of you no matter what you decide. Remember, these are inanimate objects and we can't take them when we go. If there's no one to leave them to, it makes more sense to bank the revenue from selling them. I'd keep at least 1 rifle though, just for the memory and tie to your grandpa. I keep an old Fox sterlingworth shotgun my grandfather gave me, right before he passed away and when I pick it up or hunt with it, I always think of the good times we had. It sounds like you are a very level headed guy that will make the right decision. Thanks for sharing your beautiful rifles with us too... [/quote]

I could not of said it better, my sentiments exactly!

Yeah. You are so much better than me cause you like 70's and I like 99's. That's a pretty tall horse you are ridding.

But at the end of the day any gun is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it. And you don't deserve it any more than somebody that is willing to paying more for it than you are.

Just saying...

I have a supergrade floorplate..
But you have to make me a deal for the 300..either one..
I also have a brand new 300 win mag in pre 64.
You can PM me a price..If you are interested in selling either.
I am not a seller...I like to collect them

You suggesting he starts an auction at a penny on gunbroker is ridiculous. You have to have the right people looking at it at the right time. The 458 WM the OP has could potentially sell for half of what it's worth if the right people aren't looking at the auction. There are better options for selling this rifle and yours is not the best option or it's a big gamble. Is the OP willing to lose his azz if he listens to your suggestion? Probably not. It's not a question of who's better either, as I won't go there. I'll spare you that embarrassment. Just sayin..

Those are some very nice and highly sought after guns.

The 300 H&H although the least value is the one I like the best; hard to beat pre 1958 M70's in my book.

I will venture a guess that the 458 African originally came with an aluminum Super Grade marked floorplate and your grandfather swapped it out for steel.

Thanks! Still pondering and, knowing myself, probably will for some time.