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Nah, but what about my question to you. If YOU wrong someone, can you dictate the rule about how, why and should they etc, forgive YOU? You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness. Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them? He didn't say that at all. Why would you think that? Perhaps he is saying that if YOU wrong some one, you cannot give THEM the rules by which you can be forgiven. You either obfuscate or perhaps you have a reading comprehension issue. Once again, you miss the whole point of the line of reasoning. Is the requirement to spill blood for forgiveness consistent with the concept of an "infinite" god? Is such a god even moral? Or, is this idea more consistent with something thought up by primitive, bronze age, goat herders? Nope, you just backed yourself into a corner and rather than acknowledge it, you try to weasel out by some sort of "contortion." Answer the question that Ringman and I put to you.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness. Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them? Jesus wants you to forgive them if you feel wronged. You are not qualified to forgive their sin.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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TF and Rich both completely miss the point in their scramble to play Semantic Twister.
Forgiveness stands independently of any version or notion of 'God'. The definition of 'letting go of a debt' is as it is used in their Bible! (Perhaps read Jesus' own parable of the wicked servant)
Rich has also fallen back on the default apologetic position of those who can't intelligently defend their beliefs....'because he's God'.
This is the most facile and puerile 'argument' that the religious can come with and they use it to cover any and all reprehensible actions and unprovable assertions concerning their deity.
Of course, that same line of 'reasoning' can be used to 'prove' or excuse any other religions FSM, as well. Nope, not missing the point at all. Perhaps you can answer the question.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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TF and Rich both completely miss the point in their scramble to play Semantic Twister.
Forgiveness stands independently of any version or notion of 'God'. The definition of 'letting go of a debt' is as it is used in their Bible! (Perhaps read Jesus' own parable of the wicked servant)
Rich has also fallen back on the default apologetic position of those who can't intelligently defend their beliefs....'because he's God'.
This is the most facile and puerile 'argument' that the religious can come with and they use it to cover any and all reprehensible actions and unprovable assertions concerning their deity.
Of course, that same line of 'reasoning' can be used to 'prove' or excuse any other religions FSM, as well. MH, You miss the point that my question posed to AS does not require "God" in the answer. You are playing Semantic Twister, not me. This is an easy question, the answer is obvious but you both avoid it.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness. Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them? Jesus want you to forgive them if you feel wronged. You are not qualified to forgive their sin. If I am the one wronged, I am the only one who can forgive them. And I can do so without the spilling of blood. Again, this demonstrates your concept of a god is a petty, finite god, and an example of how Divine Command Theory and Vicarious Redemption are the foundation for a moral system.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Nah, but what about my question to you. If YOU wrong someone, can you dictate the rule about how, why and should they etc, forgive YOU? You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness. Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them? He didn't say that at all. Why would you think that? Perhaps he is saying that if YOU wrong some one, you cannot give THEM the rules by which you can be forgiven. You either obfuscate or perhaps you have a reading comprehension issue. Once again, you miss the whole point of the line of reasoning. Is the requirement to spill blood for forgiveness consistent with the concept of an "infinite" god? Is such a god even moral? Or, is this idea more consistent with something thought up by primitive, bronze age, goat herders? Nope, you just backed yourself into a corner and rather than acknowledge it, you try to weasel out by some sort of "contortion." Answer the question that Ringman and I put to you. I see you are avoiding my question, god, or Goat Herder?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness. Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them? Jesus want you to forgive them if you feel wronged. You are not qualified to forgive their sin. If I am the one wronged, I am the only one who can forgive them. And I can do so without the spilling of blood. Again, this demonstrates your concept of a god is a petty, finite god, and an example of how Divine Command Theory and Vicarious Redemption are the foundation for a moral system. You were a little closer but you still miss it. Let me try it again. This is what Ringman posted: “You are not the One who has been sinned against. You cannot set up the rules for forgiveness.” This is the AS response: “Are you really saying that if I am wronged by someone I'm not allowed to forgive them?” No, AS, he is not saying that. You can forgive all you want when someone sins against you. But when YOU sin against someone else, it is not up to YOU to decide how, when where or why that person forgives YOU. That is up to the person who has been sinned against. An example, Joe steals Bob’s car and then wrecks it. But Joe reasons that Bob has a lot of money and he should just blow off the theft and the loss because JOE thinks that’s how BOB should forgive JOE’s sin. Simple, but AS either missed it or blew right by it. AS ignores the obvious. If one has wronged someone else, the person doing the wrong doing cannot dictate the rules by which he should be forgiven. AS has it exactly bass ackwards and will not admit it. So, I asked AS two simple questions. First: “If you do someone wrong, are they obligated to forgive you?” Second: “If YOU wrong someone, can you dictate the rule about how, why and should they etc, forgive YOU?”
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Gotta go, have to work tomorrow.
I will check to see if MH or AS can address these two simple questions.
And to AS, not goat herder but carpenter. You got that wrong too.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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If you do someone wrong, are they obligated to forgive you? Well...... If they created the entire situation and knowingly set you up for absolute failure in the first place, perhaps they have all if not the greater part of the culpability. Perhaps they should be the party asking for forgiveness.
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If you do someone wrong, are they obligated to forgive you? Well...... If they created the entire situation and knowingly set you up for absolute failure in the first place, perhaps they have all if not the greater part of the culpability. Perhaps they should be the party asking for forgiveness. Carbon12, You surprise me. Your response contributes. So, Joe steals Bob's car. But since Bob had much, Joe thinks Bob should let him lightly since Bob is so rich. But Joe has perpetrated a wrong and is not sure how,to right the wrong or how to set things right with Bob. Bob is very powerful and might prosecute Joe and Joe is fearful of that. Joe has a couple of choices. He might stay away from Bob out of the embarrassment of his own crime. He might react by cursing Bob for leaving the keys in it in the first place. After all, it really is Bob!s fault in the first place, right? Or not. Bob might see Joe's dilemma and communicate to Joe what must,be done to make things right, Joe can admit his wrongdoing and get right with Bob or he can refuse to admit his wrong and simply curse Bob and never accept responsibility for his crime. So simple. Anyway, the point has been made. I am gone on another trip. Pls play on.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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If you do someone wrong, are they obligated to forgive you? Well...... If they created the entire situation and knowingly set you up for absolute failure in the first place, perhaps they have all if not the greater part of the culpability. Perhaps they should be the party asking for forgiveness. Carbon12, You surprise me. Your response contributes. So, Joe steals Bob's car. But since Bob had much, Joe thinks Bob should let him lightly since Bob is so rich. But Joe has perpetrated a wrong and is not sure how,to right the wrong or how to set things right with Bob. Bob is very powerful and might prosecute Joe and Joe is fearful of that. Joe has a couple of choices. He might stay away from Bob out of the embarrassment of his own crime. He might react by cursing Bob for leaving the keys in it in the first place. After all, it really is Bob!s fault in the first place, right? Or not. Bob might see Joe's dilemma and communicate to Joe what must,be done to make things right, Joe can admit his wrongdoing and get right with Bob or he can refuse to admit his wrong and simply curse Bob and never accept responsibility for his crime. So simple. Anyway, the point has been made. I am gone on another trip. Pls play on. I guess you missed the part (point) where Bob (God) made Joe (you) with an absolute thieving (sinful) nature. When you inevitably stole (failed at not sinning), you were only fulfilling Bob's perfect plan. Isn't that the crux of the Christian Redemption narrative? So simple and for most Christians, familiar. But yet, you still managed to miss it.
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Hey Gents.....
Would ANY society be worse off.....or better off.....following these simple guidelines?
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall make no idols.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Keep the Sabbath day holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Taken a little further...
Would ANY society be worse off.....or better off.....following these simple guidelines...?
Love God, and demonstrate your love for God by loving others.
Show the same grace and love toward others that God has shown toward you.
"When you do these things to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do them unto Me." - Jesus
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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What was there BEFORE god? Who made God? Out of what?
Don't quote scripture, that was written by men and went through translation after translation.
I'd like someone to try to answer without using scripture.
In fact, I'd like to know how the Bible defines time. You ask questions "before God and Who made God?" This is like asking, To whom is the bachelor married? The questions make no sense. If God exists and called the universe into existence by the Power of His Word then He is infinite. Infinite has no "Before" or a maker. Infinite is without bounds of time, material, knowledge, space or anything else one might think of. The Bible defines time in Its first chapter. It says it is marked by the sun and moon. It also establishes that the sun and moon would be for signs, and seasons and days and years. OK lemme make it simple enough so you'll understand it. -Where did God come from? -Who made god and how? Out of what? -Before God existed, what was there? Because your answer sounds a lot like "God only exists in my mind because I say so"
Last edited by bigfish9684; 09/27/16.
It's about like this:
"Do you puff peters?"
"Hell no!"
"NAZI!!!"
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well, at least the Good News is that no mere mortal can kill a Real (True) God. now, ol antelope snipe is correct in his understanding that mankind has been killin' off gods from nearly the beginning. the numbers are constantly shrinking. they, or most of them might actually go extinct some day, like the tasmanian tiger, or dodo bird or passenger pigeon.
a constant sorting has been going on for aeons, just like with the diverse number of human languages that are out there. but, it's all for good reason. as a side thought, might we all be better off if every swingin' dick & harry on the globe spoke (& understood) the same language?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No one made God. He's eternal and has always been.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Taken a little further...
Would ANY society be worse off.....or better off.....following these simple guidelines...?
Love God, and demonstrate your love for God by loving others.
Show the same grace and love toward others that God has shown toward you.
"When you do these things to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do them unto Me." - Jesus
Jesus said this fulfilled all the law and the Prophets. Love God, and your neighbor as yourself, and Heaven will be on earth. That might also indicate the odds, at least in this present darkness.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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OK lemme make it simple enough so you'll understand it.
-Where did God come from?
-Who made god and how? Out of what?
-Before God existed, what was there?
Because your answer sounds a lot like "God only exists in my mind because I say so" I'll return your "simplification favor": "Act as though I AM and I will be". Put another way; Is the electrical current which is available inside the wiring of your house less real because you choose not to tap into it?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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someone is projecting the movie upon the screen, with all the action associated therewith.
but, the whole thingy is powered by electricity.
how did we manage to get so far off the straight & narrow, while possessing such good intentions? anybody know for sure?
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What was there BEFORE god? Who made God? Out of what?
Don't quote scripture, that was written by men and went through translation after translation.
I'd like someone to try to answer without using scripture.
In fact, I'd like to know how the Bible defines time. You ask questions "before God and Who made God?" This is like asking, To whom is the bachelor married? The questions make no sense. If God exists and called the universe into existence by the Power of His Word then He is infinite. Infinite has no "Before" or a maker. Infinite is without bounds of time, material, knowledge, space or anything else one might think of. The Bible defines time in Its first chapter. It says it is marked by the sun and moon. It also establishes that the sun and moon would be for signs, and seasons and days and years. OK lemme make it simple enough so you'll understand it. -Where did God come from? -Who made god and how? Out of what? -Before God existed, what was there? Because your answer sounds a lot like "God only exists in my mind because I say so" I see you don't understand the word "infinite".
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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