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Get The Metals Handbook-Forging.
Case studies. Lots of examples.
Others available
Welding
Machining
Over a dozen now.
SAE standards.......tomes of wisdom.

GB1

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Originally Posted by 257_X_50
Get The Metals Handbook-Forging.
Case studies. Lots of examples.
Others available
Welding
Machining
Over a dozen now.
SAE standards.......tomes of wisdom.


A great reference source, many's the hour I've spent happily reading it. They call it ASM Handbook now, and it runs to 34 volumes LINK . Pricy to buy new - $8990 for the set ($6750 for ASM members). You can buy individual volumes though, or buy second-hand for a great deal less. You may also find it in a library if you're lucky.

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Originally Posted by dan_oz
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
Get The Metals Handbook-Forging.
Case studies. Lots of examples.
Others available
Welding
Machining
Over a dozen now.
SAE standards.......tomes of wisdom.


A great reference source, many's the hour I've spent happily reading it. They call it ASM Handbook now, and it runs to 34 volumes LINK . Pricy to buy new - $8990 for the set ($6750 for ASM members). You can buy individual volumes though, or buy second-hand for a great deal less. You may also find it in a library if you're lucky.


I bought all mine second hand.
The case studies are the best. Real world. Not BS.

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Originally Posted by BWalker
No doubt they are rugged guns. They are also pretty damn crude IMO and that's why they sell forless than something like a model 700 or a model 70.


Let me know when I can get a Ruger M77 for less than the Wally World 700's everyone's getting for builds. Usually seeing things like 379-420 a piece for them.

I'll buy them all day at that price OVER a 700 - EVERY TIME.



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So lets review...

A $500 Ruger...pricey!

Not standing in the woods holding your bolt handle in one hand and your johnson in the other...priceless!


"Supernatural divinities are the primitive's answer to why the sun goes down at night..."
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Anyone know, is PT&G making their one-piece bolts from bar stock?

Also, anyone care to talk about anodizing? The finish on scope tubes for instance is pretty amazingly durable. Does it impart any other properties to the AL beyond just the surface?

Finally, how about cyro treating of barrels to relieve stress? Real or marketing?


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FÜCK PUTIN!
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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Anyone know, is PT&G making their one-piece bolts from bar stock?

Also, anyone care to talk about anodizing? The finish on scope tubes for instance is pretty amazingly durable. Does it impart any other properties to the AL beyond just the surface?

Finally, how about cyro treating of barrels to relieve stress? Real or marketing?


Hard anodizing is harder than the hubs of hell. Don't mess with it. Though it does reduce the fatigue properties

Last edited by 257_X_50; 10/05/16.
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Anyone know, is PT&G making their one-piece bolts from bar stock?

I don't know, possibly they're made from a forged steel/platinum/gold alloy to justify the price...but however they make them, as long as they are one piece they should be relatively idiot proof.

Also, anyone care to talk about anodizing? The finish on scope tubes for instance is pretty amazingly durable. Does it impart any other properties to the AL beyond just the surface?

Anodizing is harder, wear resistant and doesn't oxidize...yes, it's just a surface treatment, but that's a lot on the plus side right there.

Finally, how about cyro treating of barrels to relieve stress? Real or marketing?

I'd spend the money on nitriding...it's like a reverse cryo that actually has tangible benefits.


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Originally Posted by Boogaloo
Anyone know, is PT&G making their one-piece bolts from bar stock?

I don't know, possibly they're made from a forged steel/platinum/gold alloy to justify the price...but however they make them, as long as they are one piece they should be relatively idiot proof.

Also, anyone care to talk about anodizing? The finish on scope tubes for instance is pretty amazingly durable. Does it impart any other properties to the AL beyond just the surface?

Anodizing is harder, wear resistant and doesn't oxidize...yes, it's just a surface treatment, but that's a lot on the plus side right there.

Finally, how about cyro treating of barrels to relieve stress? Real or marketing?

I'd spend the money on nitriding...it's like a reverse cryo that actually has tangible benefits.


Anodizing aluminum creates a layer of aluminum oxide (aluminum rust) on the surface. The difference between hard coat and standard anodizing is the temprature of the acid bath during the anodizing process.

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Are there dimensional changes with anodizing?

Reason I'm curious, I made this hub for a customer right before I left to go hunting. It's a prototype for an electric bike, so stronger than bike hubs, but compatible with bike disc brakes and chain rings etc. The recesses on the ends are bearing press fits. As I'm leaving he mentioned he was so happy with it he was going to have it anodized... I didn't have time to look into if the anodizing would change the ID's of those pockets.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Jeff_O; 10/05/16.

The CENTER will hold.

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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Are there dimensional changes with anodizing?

Reason I'm curious, I made this hub for a customer right before I left to go hunting. It's a prototype for an electric bike, so stronger than bike hubs, but compatible with bike disc brakes and chain rings etc. The recesses on the ends are bearing press fits. As I'm leaving he mentioned he was so happy with it he was going to have it anodized... I didn't have time to look into if the anodizing would change the ID's of those pockets.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Yes. Anodizing adds aprox .0002"~.0003" to the surface. If you're using close tolerances you have to plan for it. Also tapped holes, either plug the hole with a nylon screw or use an oversized tap. You won't be able to re-tap the holes once they're hard anodized.

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Thanks AJ. I'm letting him know that ASAP <g>. Recutting those bearing pockets would be a bitch now that the part is done. Not much to grab.

Last edited by Jeff_O; 10/05/16. Reason: Fixing stupid

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Hard anodizing yes. You'll snap a tap. Standard anodizing, no.

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Originally Posted by dan_oz
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
Get The Metals Handbook-Forging.
Case studies. Lots of examples.
Others available
Welding
Machining
Over a dozen now.
SAE standards.......tomes of wisdom.


A great reference source, many's the hour I've spent happily reading it. They call it ASM Handbook now, and it runs to 34 volumes LINK . Pricy to buy new - $8990 for the set ($6750 for ASM members). You can buy individual volumes though, or buy second-hand for a great deal less. You may also find it in a library if you're lucky.


If I recall correctly, "Welding / Case Studies" was a source of some
of the curricula that the Alberta Journeyman's Structural Welding certification courses taught and tested on, back in the late 80's, and onward into the mid-90s. After mid 90's some "dilution" became evident.

GTC


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Originally Posted by dan_oz
A great reference source, many's the hour I've spent happily reading it. They call it ASM Handbook now, and it runs to 34 volumes LINK . Pricy to buy new - $8990 for the set ($6750 for ASM members). You can buy individual volumes though, or buy second-hand for a great deal less. You may also find it in a library if you're lucky.

I keep a copy of the whole set on my phone.


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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Thanks AJ. I'm letting him know that ASAP <g>. Recutting those bearing pockets would be a bitch now that the part is done. Not much to grab.

Check the clearances and it should be fine. It doesn't need to be hard. There is lots of anodizing on high-end bikes but mostly for appearance and oxidation.


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Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by BWalker
No doubt they are rugged guns. They are also pretty damn crude IMO and that's why they sell for less than something like a model 700 or a model 70.


Much less when you factor in the cost of replacing the 700 bolt or having the handle bolted down so it won't come off in your hand and replacing the trigger so it doesn't go off at odd moments of its own choosing.

I have never had a 700 bolt handle come off. And not from lack of shooting. That said the old model 70, 1 piece forged bolt is the best mouse trap.
As for the trigger. I run Jewell triggers on both my model 70's and model 70's for the most part. I do have a Neil Jones and an Eddie Fosnaugh tuned 700 factory triggers and they have always worked great.


Silver brazing is very strong, if done correctly, and can't be disassembled without some serious abuse well above and beyond hard use. The problem is that some of them don't get assembled correctly. Can you tell by looking? I can't, so I don't trust them as much as some others.


Looks like we can maybe get back to discussing RIFLES,....the mysteries of bicycle parts behind us, (for a while anyway)

This REALLY bears a look, and a wee bit further discussion,...Klick nailed it, shot a 10 X, drove it right outta' the park.

I watched the proud owner of a brand new Remington Super mangle'um break this bolt handle of with the HEEL OF HIS HAND.

[Linked Image]

Please take note of the Induction Copper Braze, and lack thereof

GTC


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-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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The dark areas look like etched acidic rust,....and that's because that's exactly what they were, any bonding was a function of PART of the coppery looking areas. blush blush blush

[Linked Image]



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[Linked Image]

I WATCHED this failure,while running a public range and having just called a cease fire,I saw him madly trying to open his bolt off a hot chamber and just missed by a second getting over to the fellow and telling him to relax, and dump it down range,....

Nice situation,....the rifle locked and cocked on a handload of undetermined pressure,....we gingerly lashed the thing upright in a off limits spot on an adjacent (vacant) range,....when the crowd thinned out a bit I got another local RSO to take over, and went over to the tool shack and cobbled up a piece of rebar and some scatter blanket sandbags, lashed the miscreant Rem 700 to a rest, and fired it with a piece of bale twine. The fireformed he'd been pulling out of the gun all looked fine, and some other Manglum crazies assured that his load wasn't THAT hot,.... so I was reasonably certain that my plan was the best one for the moment.

A friend had a pretty Skookum Rifle and Optics business running close by, I got the rifle's owner and my friend together, they ordered up some sorta custom handle, which, IIRC, I installed.

There was a BAD run of this problem, and I have more examples out in the shop somewhere.

Like Klick says, I'd be a little cautious about overinflating the quality of one MASS PRODUCED rifle over the other, and slinging overly full buckets of chit at "inferior" (albeit STRONGER) designs)

GTC

Last edited by crossfireoops; 10/12/16.

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