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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. You can say they were some of your most memorable hunts, but as far as hunting you failed if you were hunting with a legal tag. In psychology it might even be called "rationalizing". Good grief.........
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Plain and simple (yes this is a little tongue in cheek)
Some guys are all about the trophy, trophy car, trophy gun, trophy racks, and trophy wives.
Other guys are about becoming a skilled and responsible outdoorsman.
Now you can be both - but that's a fine line... and one typically wins out over the other.
You got me...on both counts... I'm very coordinated when it comes to walking (or flying)fine lines. In my old line of work it was sort of a job requirement for staying alive. Some, no many of you posited some very valid positions and then again some have not. In the end, I'll stick to my SCOTUS and prostitute analogies, and of course my OWN personal opinion hunting by running down an animal with dogs until he is so exhausted he can't go on then blasting him out of a tree is not my view of hunting and of course, even worse are the 800 yard shooters. I am not saying it's unethical by any means, just not my idea of a hunt and to the usual suspects... DILIGAF? (rhetorical question). Been on two bear hunts using dogs,there's more to it than that. Loved hearing the dogs chasing the bear,trying to determine which dog you are hearing,how far it is,which direction it's heading,is it a treed bark or still chasing bark. Then there was the "All American." An "All American" is when the scent is so hot/fresh all the dogs open up! Maybe hard to believe,but one bear out distanced the dogs,we called him "The Runner" and according to the guide,that bear knew what was going on and beat feet out of there. But,to each their own.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. You can say they were some of your most memorable hunts, but as far as hunting you failed if you were hunting with a legal tag. In psychology it might even be called "rationalizing". I'm not a psychologist, however I think I distinction must be drawn seperating harvesting an animal and the hunt. Two seperate things. Now you are truly into rationalizing.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I know a few guides that have worked there.
I dont really want to get into it much, I was doing a good job avoiding it, but a few words then I'll remove myself.
The OP is pretty much correct, tho it seems odd that such a traveled hunter would somehow be surprised how these things are ran is a bit odd..
Main goal is to make guys feel like its a hunt,wear them out a little and then attempt the up-sell on a bigger bull,that (usually) somehow just appears..
Guides need to be really good at scoring on the hoof, or I guess they could just look at the number/color of the ear tag..the ear tag that the guides remove before the hunter ever gets to the bull.If the guide lets a client get to the bull before or even at the same time, frankly they screwed up as they have to "prep" it a bit beforehand.
Do you really think it would take more than an hour, via ATV to go out and kill a bull there? no it wouldnt, its a dog and pony show.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 |
And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. You can say they were some of your most memorable hunts, but as far as hunting you failed if you were hunting with a legal tag. In psychology it might even be called "rationalizing". You really dont hunt that much do you? You just want to act like it....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,617 |
Plain and simple (yes this is a little tongue in cheek)
Some guys are all about the trophy, trophy car, trophy gun, trophy racks, and trophy wives.
Other guys are about becoming a skilled and responsible outdoorsman.
Now you can be both - but that's a fine line... and one typically wins out over the other.
You got me...on both counts... I'm very coordinated when it comes to walking (or flying)fine lines. In my old line of work it was sort of a job requirement for staying alive. Some, no many of you posited some very valid positions and then again some have not. In the end, I'll stick to my SCOTUS and prostitute analogies, and of course my OWN personal opinion hunting by running down an animal with dogs until he is so exhausted he can't go on then blasting him out of a tree is not my view of hunting and of course, even worse are the 800 yard shooters. I am not saying it's unethical by any means, just not my idea of a hunt and to the usual suspects... DILIGAF? (rhetorical question). Been on two bear hunts using dogs,there's more to it than that. Loved hearing the dogs chasing the bear,trying to determine which dog you are hearing,how far it is,which direction it's heading,is it a treed bark or still chasing bark. Then there was the "All American." An "All American" is when the scent is so hot/fresh all the dogs open up! Maybe hard to believe,but one bear out distanced the dogs,we called him "The Runner" and according to the guide,that bear knew what was going on and beat feet out of there. But,to each their own. Exactly! BTW, used to be a partner in a hunting outfit in Maine called Bowlin camps. Mainly bear, but moose and deer as well. Well aware of the dog thing and witnessed it many times and I personally did not care for it, but others like it and that's fine by me. PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake!
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,038 |
And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. As someone else already said, coming home empty-handed is part of hunting. It makes success worthwhile. I like my analogy best. The kid who gets a trophy for just showing up really has no reason to take pride in it.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Plain and simple (yes this is a little tongue in cheek)
Some guys are all about the trophy, trophy car, trophy gun, trophy racks, and trophy wives.
Other guys are about becoming a skilled and responsible outdoorsman.
Now you can be both - but that's a fine line... and one typically wins out over the other.
You got me...on both counts... I'm very coordinated when it comes to walking (or flying)fine lines. In my old line of work it was sort of a job requirement for staying alive. Some, no many of you posited some very valid positions and then again some have not. In the end, I'll stick to my SCOTUS and prostitute analogies, and of course my OWN personal opinion hunting by running down an animal with dogs until he is so exhausted he can't go on then blasting him out of a tree is not my view of hunting and of course, even worse are the 800 yard shooters. I am not saying it's unethical by any means, just not my idea of a hunt and to the usual suspects... DILIGAF? (rhetorical question). Been on two bear hunts using dogs,there's more to it than that. Loved hearing the dogs chasing the bear,trying to determine which dog you are hearing,how far it is,which direction it's heading,is it a treed bark or still chasing bark. Then there was the "All American." An "All American" is when the scent is so hot/fresh all the dogs open up! Maybe hard to believe,but one bear out distanced the dogs,we called him "The Runner" and according to the guide,that bear knew what was going on and beat feet out of there. But,to each their own. Exactly! BTW, used to be a partner in a hunting outfit in Maine called Bowlin camps. Mainly bear, but moose and deer as well. Well aware of the dog thing and witnessed it many times and I personally did not care for it, but others like it and that's fine by me. PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake! Bear hunting with dogs isn't any less of a challenge than shooting them over donuts.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
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And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. As someone else already said, coming home empty-handed is part of hunting. It makes success worthwhile. I like my analogy best. The kid who gets a trophy for just showing up really has no reason to take pride in it. The best hunt I ever had was one in which my brother, dad and myself hunted antelope,deer and elk in MT. We all tagged out on antelope but not on deer or elk. It was a success because we got my dad a lope on his last hunt ever and it was some doing given his severe physical restrictions. I will never forget it. DYI public land BTW.
Last edited by BWalker; 10/18/16.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake!
Everything I know about the place is a guess..
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
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You got me...on both counts... I'm very coordinated when it comes to walking (or flying)fine lines. In my old line of work it was sort of a job requirement for staying alive. Some, no many of you posited some very valid positions and then again some have not.
PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake!
Ok, wasnt going to pick on you anymore Jorge (or Pugs who is apparently staying out of it at this point ) , but I'll run through this one more time. Of course there is no tag involved. Private owned elk, on privately owned land--like it is in most western states--is regulated by Idaho Dept of Agriculture. That should tell you something right there. OF COURSE the guide isn't going to take you over to the 8ft high, woven wire fence, and tell you, "this is how we keep the elk in so you can shoot them". OF COURSE, the management isn't going to take you to the elk facilities and show you "this is where the elk are bred", "this is where the elk are born", "this is the squeeze chute where we inject antibiotics into these(very) valuable elk because they are quite susceptible to disease when kept together year 'round", and "this is where we open the gate shortly before the hunters arrive and slap 'em in the butt and say sayonara little buddies it was good knowing ya'". Now, about fine lines and matter of degrees: When it comes to high fence hunting it ain't close--it's in a different solar system. There is no legitimate sport hunting organization I'm aware of that considers high fence hunting ethical. When Broadmouth's website declares a "517 point World Record Elk", that's an absolute lie. And the rest of their well written website (I swear, it could be canonized) says things like "fair chase feeling" and "preserve", it is written for the uninitiated and/or to assist in any rationalization. I have my criticisms of compound bows in regular archery seasons, of long range hunting, annd I can even (barely) understand some hunters and nonhunters distaste for hound hunting and baiting for bears--but unlike Broadmouth's 100% "chance" of success, all the above mentioned are far from a sure bet. The aforementioned are a matter of degree, 100% "chance" is not. So, as far as flying the fine line is concerned, you were subject to review by your superiors and your peers every minute you were in the cockpit. And I really doubt you were not ever critiqued and criticized for your some of your choices while in the cockpit. So sailor, all I can say is welcome to the Campfire Debriefing and Review Board. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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And FWIW some of my most memorable hunts were ones where I came home empty handed. Same here. Those hunts were also some of the most humbling.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I believe Safari Club recognizes livestock
shot at high fence facilities.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 26,247 |
I believe Safari Club recognizes livestock
shot at high fence facilities. I was afraid of that. I knew they were having that discussion at some point in time, must've been wishful thinking on my part that they decided otherwise. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
They call them "estate" trophies.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,617 |
PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake!
Everything I know about the place is a guess.. Well, being that I got to the elk before the guide, I'd chalk that up to the bullshit column.tg
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,617 |
Nope, wrong again. At least not for lion that I can vouch for. But , I really don't care, as I'm not into the tape thing
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
In regards to eartags. I worked on a preserve that my father owned while in high school. We tried to always remove the tags if at all possible upon release.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nope, wrong again. At least not for lion that I can vouch for. But , I really don't care, as I'm not into the tape thing If that's directed at me, don't know what you're referring to. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,247 |
PS: tTo the other poster, there were NO tags on these elk for chrissake!
Everything I know about the place is a guess.. Well, being that I got to the elk before the guide, I'd chalk that up to the bullshit column.tg Check for lip tatoos.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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