Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Recommendations on trigger, action screws, etc. for m1917 project

Hello gents, well I picked up a sportered Remmy M1917 just before the big move to North Idaho, and am finally starting to check it out and see what I want done. So I have a couple questions: What aftermarket trigger would be recommended? It has alraedy been converted to cock on open using the military trigger, but there is way to much "rattle" in the trigger. The rifle has a great fajen stock, but I would like to have it checkered and a new black fore end tip installed. This is out of my abilities, so are there any gunsmiths in the northern Idaho area who could do this? Also, does anyone make hex head action screws for this rifle? will need to swap out the current ones anyway as they are a little too beat up for my likes.
BTW the military barrel was retained and very well turned down to about a #4 contour, and all the metal work appears to have been professionally polished and blued. The triggerguard and floorplate were also flatend down and gives the rifle a very streamlined appearance. She was an "eye catcher" when I first saw it, but needs a bit of work to put her back in full form.

Thanks for any and all help,
Reguards, Rob

Doing much the same myself.Screws are 1/4" x 25TPI.The Forsters? are for a 6shot mag or a straightened one,both are too long for a shortened box.However 25tpi is the almost the same as the very standard metric 1mm thread(25.4)Get some new ones threaded longer with a metric lathe or pay the $30+ for a 1/4"x25 die if they shortened the mag box.If you wish to keep the cock on open,get a complete Dayton-Traister kit.They are not badly priced.Good luck and hope this helps.

I think you are confusing the M17 Enfield with the '03 Springfield. The Enfield guard screws are 1/4in x 30TPI, of Whitworth thread form as I recall. Brownells list an appropriate button die - probably the only company on earth that has such an odd-ball size.

Brownells sells the screws for the straightened floorplate.
Part # 319-414-171

RWO

You are right,I just checked, as best I could with my standard thread guages.Thank you.I guess I'm going to have to get the die.ouch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I have the screws for the straightened bottom metal,they are too long for my shortened box.I need more thread for when I cut them back.

Is 1/4" x 30tpi a Whitworth fine?

No, �fraid not. The pitch of the 1/4in British Standard Fine thread (the �brother� of British Standard Whitworth) is 26TPI. The 1/4x30 thread of the Enfield guard screws is a right-proper bastard, which is why I made the comment previously that Brownells is probably the only outfit who will be able to sell you a button die.

I have been through all this before, when I wanted to replace some Enfield guard screws and figured that the socket head type would be good, if I could get them. It didn�t take me long to run into some snags, though.

The first one was that I couldn�t find anything ready to use �on the shelf�.

My next thought was to get some 1/4in diameter socket head cap screws of any thread available, long enough to cut off all the existing thread, and then re-thread them at 30TPI. However, the gunsmith I most often go to told me that there was some major problem with cutting a 30TPI thread on his lathe. So I figured that I could get around this with a button die from Brownells, but the gunsmith warned me that die-cutting a new thread on a high-tensile screw shank would not be a fun job, and the die probably wouldn�t last long. A further drawback with this scheme was that by the time the height of the head of a UNF or BSW cap screw had been reduced sufficiently that it would not protrude from the counter-bore in an Enfield guard, the socket would be less than 1/16in deep. Not good!

OK, how about the 1/4in cap screw blanks that Brownells advertise? I understand from other internet discussions I have read that these are not very hard, so die-cutting the thread shouldn�t be too difficult � but then they might not last too well if they were not hardened after all the machining was finished. However, I haven�t been able to find out how deep the sockets on them are, or, more to the point, what depth would be left after the heads were cut down to the required height. For all I know, they might also finish up absurdly shallow.

When I added up the purchase price and freight cost of the screw blanks and the die, plus the costs of the necessary machining, hardening, and bluing, I decided that plain, ordinary, slotted head screws would do just fine! Especially when my gunsmith found some original Enfield screws in brand-new condition.

I suspect that the length of thread on original screws varies from one maker to another. The latest ones I got had enough thread to work OK in conjunction with straightened out bottom metal and a magazine with the depth significantly reduced. However I do recall having a problem with a similarly modified action, many years ago. I took the easy way out then, and simply relieved a few millimetres of shank immediately behind where the thread ended, and cut the screw to the required overall length. Looked a bit ropey, but worked fine � there was still an ample amount of thread engagement.

Have a good Christmas - I hope what I have said here doesn't spoil your day.

Thanks again.I checked Brownells #57,the 1/4x30 dies are only $13.90US,the 1/4x25 are 30.Pre-standardized threads <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

At work we have Japanese machines,the oldest ones are Whitworth,no problem except 1/2"x12tpi,but the newer machines are metric,Japanese metric.You don't dare loose any bolts,unless you want to tap them out.

Our latest machines are German and Italian.

$13.90 is not a bad price for a die. If you go this route � using the Brownells screw blanks � could you let me know how it all turns out, please. I would certainly be interested.

I don�t think the Enfield and Springfield rifles pre-date standardised threads. It�s more likely that the designers purposely avoided them, so that a soldier who lost the originals out of his rifle couldn�t substitute things he had bought from the local hardware store.



Is there any significant difference between the screws and bolts used in the Japanese machines, and those used in the German and Italian jobs? I was under the impression that most European and Asian manufacturers stuck to ISO stuff these days, except in some highly specialised applications.

I'm guessing ,but the North Americian National dates from 1921? I know ISO from 1971. So the 1970's Japanese machines had different pitchs. I found that when I went from a French Simca to the Italian Fait,my spare bolts didn't always fit.The latest machines are ISO.Interesting that the ISO followed the Whitworth thread form,except for the 60 o.

I just ordered the die,it's handy having the Boxing Day holiday,otherwise I'ld be at work.I have the straightened bolts,so I will just thread the shank.

I know the Whitworth standard dates back to somewhere around 1850, and I had an impression (but no more) that the US standard came in late in the 1800s. So I am quite willing to accept your correction that is was actually not until 1921.

I have just been looking at a 1970-vinatge fastener catalogue which includes a chart showing a lot of the European screw diameters and pitches that were in use prior to ISO trying to rationalise things. There were some funny ones all right - and between them, the European car manufacturers probably used them all!

Digressing somewhat, can you tell me what bolts, screws and studs are used in Asian and European cars distributed in the USA? Metric, or are they re-worked with US standard stuff?

Good luck with your Enfield screws, hope they work out OK.

WOW! kind of a funny turn of this "thread"! pun intended. Anyway all that machine stuff aside, if necessary I'll just file and reslot the existing screws if necessary. Just thought it would add a little cool factor to have hex head screws.

Will be going the dayton traister route with the trigger.

Anyone still got info on North Idaho or Western Montana gunsmith that could do a little stock work?

Thanks gents, Rob

Winchester M70 screws are also 1/4x30tpi too.

as well.

No, they are 1/4x32TPI - another odd-ball.

This is mild compared to the twists and turns that some threads take. Hope you did learn SOMETHING of use from it, though.

If you really have your heart set on socket head guard screws, perhaps you could try talking nicely to 'dwt2'.
(I'm not implying that you don't talk nicely to people anyway - I'm sure you know what I mean)

They ARE 32. My mistake. GD

Sorry,I'm just a millwright.Right now I puzzling <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> on how I'm going to hold the " for straightened " screws with out marking them when I thread a another 1/4" with a dainty 13/16" die that I ordered.

As for cars,North Americian metric has some odd bolt head sizes,such as 18mm instead of 19mm for 12mm bolt and 15mm instead of 17mm for the 10mm bolt.And you can find both sizes on a bolt and nut <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

ISO is a joke. Standard Metric threads have such a poor and wide tolerance that they fit like a prck in a shirt sleeve <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> unlike the Unified and Whitworth and British Standard threads (BSF) Cycle and British brass were 26 TPI which fit nicely togeher <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Sorry but socket screws look awful on a rifle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Guns screws or "Pins" as they are known in the Guntrade here in the UK should have fine slots and with these they look very good. Of course the military used wider slots than the commercial gun makers.

Machine tool makers and car makers use special threads so they can rip you off if you break of lose any ...................... more profit for them and more hassle for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Also the std metric threads are not suitable for lots of applications which is why there are so many "Special Metrics" out there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What I was hinting at is that if you have purchased a pack of Brownells screw blanks, and the 1/4x30 die, you are already �half way there� and will probably have some blanks left over. (and MIGHT be willing to do some trading)



There are various ways you could do it. Which of the following do you have? (or have access to?)

Engineer�s lathe?
Drill press?
Hand-held electric drill?
Press-type stand for above?
Angle grinder?
Dremel or similar, and mounted stones?
Straight driver and hex bit of the appropriate size for the sockets of your screws?

I assume that you have a 13/16� die stock. (i.e. three-screw adjustable die holder) You will definitely need that.



Yuk! Oh well, I suppose it might all get rationalised one day, but probably not in my lifetime. Though given the apparent perversity of some car manufacturers, maybe not �

I didn't have the screw blanks,so I ddn't get your drift.

I don't have a lathe but I have rest.I leaning toward a vise-grip and sheet lead on the shank for holding them.I have little faith in even a properly hollow ground slotted driver bit and slotted screws.Metric <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> in-hex <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> aren't much of step up either.

Being Canadian and having used them,I am firm believer in the genius of Robertson.

Robertson goes to England during WWI to sell screws. He sees a fighter trying to shoot down a Zepplin. He suggests to War Ministry "Why don't you make some of the bullet glow so the pilot can see where they are going?" Their answer to him "What does a hardware merchant from the colonies know"

Ever heard of tracer bullets? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />