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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,258
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,258 |
Jorge,
Most BR actions are beefed up copies of the 700. Forbes rifle is a "7/8 copy" of the 700 action.
Do a internet search of "dangerous", "unsafe" ladders and the hits will be almost entirely about Werner ladders. Why--because Werner outsells everybody else by a wide margin.
It's a numbers game.
The trigger lever engages the sear the same on every aftermarket trigger for 700's, and is similar for most sporting bolt action. Dirt between those two surfaces creates the identical condition regardless if a thin piece of metal (connector) is involved.
Once a person understands the mechanism it's easy to understand. It ain't rocket science
Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Oct 2016
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New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 12 |
I've had similar happen to me in a stand with my son but with a Sako. Smith had adjusted trigger put Loctite on the screws and the Loctite had migrated into the mechanism.
A safe trigger really is vital. For 20years I never thought about sear engagement (other than to test for safe operation) then I dropped my rifle off sticks one morning. It did a neat pirouette and landed butt first pointing at me and my dog. I had been about to fire - it was not on safe
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 |
Yes but if you refine the search it mitigates that. Look, we'll have to agree to disagree. By all the aforementioned 700 maladies, I wouldn't own one on a dare. J
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929 |
Mike Walker admitted there was a problem with the floating connector. I don't know how that's even up for debate?
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,211
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,211 |
I've had 700's since around 1978, and currently have 5 700's and a couple of Model 7's. I have adjusted the triggers down to my liking, and have replaced 2 that wouldn't adjust like I wanted. Zero problems.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 303
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 303 |
NRA: Benefactor There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over!!
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,096
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,096 |
Mike Walker admitted there was a problem with the floating connector. I don't know how that's even up for debate? If you watch the interview he says there was a problem with the manufacturing of a part. He said the design was sound. He also stated he designed another trigger which he preferred, but the cost was prohibitive for the company to change.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294 |
Heard of 2 in the last week firing in the safety on position. NIB rifles. Go figure. If I didnt have a cellar full of remmy stuff I wouldnt know which way to look for a new favorite. Oh wait.... Glad I scored a 6.5 in a Howa from Derrick. Thinking that will be my boring toy for the next few years.... Weaning myself off the 700s.
W
Last edited by woofer; 11/03/16.
"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."
MtnHtr
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760 |
The trigger definitely does not have the original sealer on the screws and has been adjusted. Nothing wrong with an experienced person skillfully adjusting a REM trigger. But, neglecting a stock box trigger is bad, and worse is to neglect a lightened box trigger. Every season, remove the barreled action from the stock, and while inspecting the trigger, hose it down and flush it out with a bottle of Ronson lighter fluid. This will keep it clean and leave just enough lubrication to keep the trigger running trouble free. If neglected, debris and the various solvents and oils used on the rifle will creep into the trigger, and will gum the works over time, which can lead to the issues you describe. A trigger set on the light end will hang up quicker than one set on the heavier end. If neglected badly enough so that a varnish has built up, or the wrong product, such as an alox, was applied, you may need to remove the trigger and soak in a solvent to remove the varnish. Once clean, lightly lubed with the residual of the Ronson, properly adjusted, and with the yearly inspection and cleaning; it should run for quite some time before physically wearing out. Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Good advise this.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,941 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
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Mike Walker admitted there was a problem with the floating connector. I don't know how that's even up for debate? If you watch the interview he says there was a problem with the manufacturing of a part. He said the design was sound. He also stated he designed another trigger which he preferred, but the cost was prohibitive for the company to change. Walker was in his 90's when that interview was conducted and may well have been confused. But in 1946 and again in 1948 he was perfectly clear in written memo's to management stating his concerns about a "serious safety issue" with his trigger design. I've seen copies of the memo's. Any trigger that is dirty or adjusted improperly can fail. But the floating connector is unique to the Walker trigger design. It has proven beyond doubt that it can allow the sear to be released with no trigger pull. It can fail with a brand new, perfectly clean rifle with the trigger pull adjusted to 15 lbs, it is irrelevant to the problem. It has been estimated that less than 1/2 of 1 percent of all of these rifles will ever do this. But it is also a fact that 100% of them could do so the next time the gun is picked up. The fact that someone has owned several rifles for years with no problems changes nothing. I've owned 8-10 700's or 7's over the last 45 years. One purchased new in 1975 did it the 1st time in the 1990's. Never had an issue again until about 2 years ago when it did it a 2nd time. It got a Timney at that point. The factory trigger was never adjusted and it was perfectly clean.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,886 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,886 Likes: 4 |
That's an awfully straight-forward post.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,126
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,126 |
The couple of 700's I have left have had the factory triggers changed out to Timney or Trigger Tech triggers.
I have several Timney's, but recently installed my first Trigger Tech Trigger. They are a lot simpler and easier to install than a Timney. I think that is all I will buy in the future.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,243 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,243 Likes: 3 |
Walker was in his 90's when that interview was conducted and may well have been confused. But in 1946 and again in 1948 he was perfectly clear in written memo's to management stating his concerns about a "serious safety issue" with his trigger design. I've seen copies of the memo's.
Any trigger that is dirty or adjusted improperly can fail. But the floating connector is unique to the Walker trigger design. It has proven beyond doubt that it can allow the sear to be released with no trigger pull. It can fail with a brand new, perfectly clean rifle with the trigger pull adjusted to 15 lbs, it is irrelevant to the problem.
It has been estimated that less than 1/2 of 1 percent of all of these rifles will ever do this. But it is also a fact that 100% of them could do so the next time the gun is picked up. The fact that someone has owned several rifles for years with no problems changes nothing.
I've owned 8-10 700's or 7's over the last 45 years. One purchased new in 1975 did it the 1st time in the 1990's. Never had an issue again until about 2 years ago when it did it a 2nd time. It got a Timney at that point. The factory trigger was never adjusted and it was perfectly clean. Excellent post and right on the money. Wish I could have articulated it so well myself. The thick headed Remington fan boys won't be convinced no matter what though. I've tried before and it's a waste of time.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,018 |
This very same thing happened to me in 1983, the first year the model 7 came out. It was a 308, which I never messed with, nor did I ever have a gunsmith adjust anything. My son and I were at deer camp, the week b/4 season doing some scouting. We were sighting in our rifles, and when I pushed the safety to the fire position, the gun fired. I never shot it again. I took it back to the shop where I bought it, told them what happened, and that I did not want the rifle anymore. They gave me what I paid them for it, and I purchased a Weatherby VGL that I have to this day. They sent the rifle back to Remington, but can't remember what the outcome was.
Last edited by lightning; 11/20/16.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
You might have the old trigger with the 2 piece connector and have crap in it or you have a poorly adjusted sear. Bring it to a good gunsmith and have him fix it .
FWIW it happened to me on a brand new Remington 700 ADL i bought in the 70's only time it happened BTW
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,272
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,272 |
Anything made by man can go cowchit.That being said I have owned lots of Rem.700`s with no problems.One of my pet peeves is watching guys clean their rifles from the breech end with no bore guide,Guess where all that residue and barrel cleaning gunk ends up??Then folks wonder why they have trigger problems.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Some of you guys are obfusticating the issue on purpose.
The "design problem" of the Walker trigger is in the trigger disconnector. It has nothing to do with the normal wear-and-tear or dirtiness that every trigger must endure.
If the disconnector does not reset due to any reason, then the trigger will AD. That is simply a design difference between the Walker trigger and every other design.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Some of you guys are obfusticating the issue on purpose.
The "design problem" of the Walker trigger is in the trigger disconnector. It has nothing to do with the normal wear-and-tear or dirtiness that every trigger must endure.
If the disconnector does not reset due to any reason, then the trigger will AD. That is simply a design difference between the Walker trigger and every other design. Remingtons remedy when the AD thing came around was the invention of remoil and to blast it thru the trigger mechanism. It's a lousy design, you can have the connector epoxied like it used to be done or get a replacement 700 trigger. I think I have one of the old triggers in a jar somewhere on my workbench.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,436
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
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There's only one problem with the Walker trigger. The tolerances were set to broad. If all the manufacturing tolerances are exactly wrong there's an issue. That's it! Anyone that says different is unknowlegable. Then there's the bib bubbas that's think they know what they are doing.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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