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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Is a fine example of liberals doing what they want within a liberal local government.
Countless violations in both law and code.
Sometimes if they ask for it hard enough, they get it.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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30 bodies so far. https://www.yahoo.com/news/oakland-...loss-of-venue-not-victims-193226659.htmlThe operator of the converted warehouse in Oakland, Calif., where a fire broke out during a dance party on Friday night, killing at least 30 people, has been widely criticized over his initial response to the tragedy.
“Everything I worked so hard for is gone,” Derick Ion Almena wrote in a Facebook post early Saturday morning. “Blessed that my children and Micah were at a hotel safe and sound … it’s as if I have awoken from a dream filled with opulence and hope … to be standing now in poverty of self worth.”
Almena’s post was met with immediate backlash from Facebook users for omitting any mention of the victims.
“Not one mention of the people burned to death in your death trap building,” one wrote. “You are a real piece of work.”
“All you worked on? What about those who have died?” wrote another. “I lost two very close and dear friends in the fire and all you seem to care about is whatever material stuff you owned, which can be replaced unless the lives your death trap has taken.”
“Lawyer up, buddy,” another comment read. “You’re going to need it.”
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Kahuna
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I read that most of the victims were on the 2d floor...reached only by a 'stairway' built of old pallets.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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stories like this remind me that there a lot of weird fuggen people in the world and i am glad i don't live near any of them.
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Tracker
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They relied on their government to protect them from such danger.
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Campfire Kahuna
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They relied on their government to protect them from such danger. Which shoudl NOT be governments job at all.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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They relied on their government to protect them from such danger. Which shoudl NOT be governments job at all. Their liberal government did nothing to stop the numerous violations. I'll bet if the NRA would have owned that warehouse, they would have come down on them like the hammer of Thor.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Savant
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Sounds like it was up to fire code
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I've dated several artists in my lifetime. I happen to like a creative mind. but not one of them would follow the rules. And not one was faithful. One would rather steal for me then ask her folks for money ( of which they had in plenty).
I consider the term "artist" warning flag these days.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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They relied on their government to protect them from such danger. Sheep to slaughter.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Kahuna
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The Warehouse operator ?..... a thief According to Oakland Alameda County court records, Almena was arrested in mid-January and spent two days in jail for receiving stolen property. On Jan. 25, he pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge and was sentenced to 36 months’ probation. Dunno about some of ya', but the syntax below makes my skin crawl In a Facebook post on Aug. 30, Almena invited fellow artists to the Ghost Ship, which he had also called “Satya Yuga.”
“Satya Yuga once again spins the riddle trick of twisted wood and bone,” he wrote. “The living offering of our sacred seat, new fusions of unprecedented beauty. Shadowed and familiar … Our Ghost Ship. In this time, crashed upon the shore of Babylon. Resurrected as a tattered temple tethered to impossible promises and broken truths … an invitation to seduce wandering lovers and desperate characters. Come sit with us. Sip Chai with us. As honored guests. And friends. To witness our fantastic and tender existence.”
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Oracle
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It don't talk a genius to figure out that climbing a stack of pallets to the second floor to party with a bunch of idiots, might not be the best idea.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Darwin awards handed out on all sides--
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Campfire Savant
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stories like this remind me that there a lot of weird fuggen people in the world and i am glad i don't live near any of them. Yeah. And they're probably glad they don't live near you and me!
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Ranger
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anytime there's enough concentrated demand for people to join in such a "celebration" anything could happen at any time.
gov't can't save us from our very selves. rediculous to even imagine such.
how did the Roman Empire save it's self? how did the Egyptian empire save it's self.
how could that group of people in kali save themselves? the answer is the same in every case.
if Cali secedes, it won't be long till the chi-coms make slaves out of every swinging dick out there.
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Death toll is up to 30, with only 20% of the building searched
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics...
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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Campfire Kahuna
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No one deserved it, but if you are dumb enough to go to a place that obviously has MAJOR safety issues your brain is not where it should be.
And the owner, could care less about life. Only about cash. ONLY.
I deal with ilk like this often weekly. Money is the only bottom line, life safety matters not to these types of folks.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Rost, I get the place wasn't safe, far from it in fact.. but how many here have ever been in a packed bar, concert venue etc where if a fire broke out things may have not gone so well? I certainly have, and I wasn't checking out the fire sprinklers while I was partying having a good time.. just saying the criticism seems harsh.
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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I agree with Certifiable. I am 64 but i still remember being young and having fun. Hell i did not know what a sprinkler system was when i was young. Fire alarm? Cmon guys it was young folks. Say a prayer for them and family. ED K
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I don't see how they could get an occupancy permit with no sprinklers, pallets for a stairway, etc.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Rost, I get the place wasn't safe, far from it in fact.. but how many here have ever been in a packed bar, concert venue etc where if a fire broke out things may have not gone so well? I certainly have, and I wasn't checking out the fire sprinklers while I was partying having a good time.. just saying the criticism seems harsh.
Guilty, growing up in the Bay Area.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Campfire Ranger
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If we were stupid enough to allow this type of catastrophe to happen at a Trump rally or a big gun show, the patrons of the aforementioned venue would be dancing in the streets with glee at our demise.
But we are different than them, right????????
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Ranger
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I check for fire sprinklers, and multiple exits.
Stepdad worked for sprinkler company.
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Campfire Ranger
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Small and big venue live music, pubs, restaurants...........old stuff in big cities is cool.
But you gotta be watchful.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've dated several artists in my lifetime. I happen to like a creative mind. but not one of them would follow the rules. And not one was faithful. One would rather steal for me then ask her folks for money ( of which they had in plenty).
I consider the term "artist" warning flag these days. I have had experience with some gunsmiths that consider themselves artists and they exhibited serious moral flaws in business. It don't talk a genius to figure out that climbing a stack of pallets to the second floor to party with a bunch of idiots, might not be the best idea.
Journalists reporting from wars zones, people recreationally climbing mountains, solo sailing across oceans, but FFS please don't climb a pallet staircase to the second floor of a warehouse.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I've dated several artists in my lifetime. I happen to like a creative mind. but not one of them would follow the rules. And not one was faithful. One would rather steal for me then ask her folks for money ( of which they had in plenty).
I consider the term "artist" warning flag these days. I have had experience with some gunsmiths that consider themselves artists and they exhibited serious moral flaws in business. It don't talk a genius to figure out that climbing a stack of pallets to the second floor to party with a bunch of idiots, might not be the best idea.
Journalists reporting from wars zones, people recreationally climbing mountains, solo sailing across oceans, but FFS please don't climb a pallet staircase to the second floor of a warehouse. Apparently you're another idiot that is incapable of understanding the difference.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Rost, I get the place wasn't safe, far from it in fact.. but how many here have ever been in a packed bar, concert venue etc where if a fire broke out things may have not gone so well? I certainly have, and I wasn't checking out the fire sprinklers while I was partying having a good time.. just saying the criticism seems harsh.
Nor was I, but I was also bright enough to figure out that climbing pallets in a shiethole didn't make sense. Of course I was already floating around the Bering Ocean with Korean War and Vietnam vets by the time these idiots graduated High School Good forbid people would assume ADULTS would have some ability to reason sheit out. Personally I don't care, idiots dying bother me not.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... But we're bright enough not to live in that sheithole you do. I can't recall the exact reason I put your ass on ignore, but it must have been from some more liberal BS coming from your piehole.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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as always we are reduced to beating the chit out of each other for having opposing views.
The loss of life is appalling. The venue was questionable, and should have been to anyone walking into the place. You pays your money, and you takes your chances. It's always that way.
Sam......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... I can't see where anyone said they "deserved it". Those are your words. Getting to the root cause of why this happened, is different than being judgemental. But, then YOU are the one being judgemental, aren't you? 
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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This is just another example of the failure of liberal politicians to do their job. Like Obama they enforce only the rules they like. In this case it cost a bunch of non too bright folks their lives. The regulators who failed to inspect or enforce should be held to account as should the sorry ass owner. I watcher a presser on Fox with the female fire chief one look was enough. There she stood fresh faced makeup flowing hair, and not so much as a smudge on her immaculate turn out gear. Hope this gives second thoughts to those who continue to trust their future to a collection incompetent PC politicians,but i doubt it. JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... But we're bright enough not to live in that sheithole you do. I can't recall the exact reason I put your ass on ignore, but it must have been from some more liberal BS coming from your piehole.
There are no problems that cannot be resolved by the suitable application of high explosive.
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as always we are reduced to beating the chit out of each other for having opposing views.
The loss of life is appalling. The venue was questionable, and should have been to anyone walking into the place. You pays your money, and you takes your chances. It's always that way.
Sam we've disagreed in the past but for the most part that's how I see it as well.
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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Campfire Sage
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I don't know if any of you know how a rave works but nobody had a permit to do any of the schit they were doing.
It's not legal.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... I can't see where anyone said they "deserved it". Those are your words. Getting to the root cause of why this happened, is different than being judgemental. But, then YOU are the one being judgemental, aren't you? Rock, perhaps you are correct. Nobody outright said they deserved it. The vibe of the thread seemed to me to be a little more of an opportunity to poke fun at CA politics than anything else. Which to me seems in poor taste when 30+ bodies are still smoking. Not at all defending our politics just saying doubt Oakland is the only place in the USA with some building code violations, and youth that make poor choices with partying.
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... But we're bright enough not to live in that sheithole you do. I can't recall the exact reason I put your ass on ignore, but it must have been from some more liberal BS coming from your piehole. SH, I get that your just trolling for a reaction, but Me? a liberal?? That's funny coming from somebody who puts one on ignore cause you didn't like something I said. Go back and find my "liberal BS", and in the meantime eat a bag of diks.
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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I don't know if any of you know how a rave works but nobody had a permit to do any of the schit they were doing.
It's not legal.
Dave Nope, none of it is. Raves are more often than not held in impromptu underground locations based on them being exactly what they are. Big unsanctioned parties..
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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I don't know if any of you know how a rave works but nobody had a permit to do any of the schit they were doing.
It's not legal.
Dave I think that's what makes them so appealing to participants. The key is, don't let it cost you your life. I think that's one things for sure tho, that definitely changes where the liability falls.
Last edited by tndrbstr; 12/05/16.
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Campfire Sage
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People that shove ecstasy up their ass aren't usually recognized for their critical thinking skills.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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People that shove ecstasy up their ass aren't usually recognized for their critical thinking skills.
Dave Tru dat
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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I was able to see the flames from my home above the flatlands. Little did I know at that time the horror involved.
There are more buildings in the hood that are live work arrangements. Hopefully none are a funeral pyre like this example.
Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... But we're bright enough not to live in that sheithole you do. I can't recall the exact reason I put your ass on ignore, but it must have been from some more liberal BS coming from your piehole. On the other hand, people dyin' in Gatlinburg, a stupic place full of stupid people just waiting for match, now THAT was a true tragedy? Can anyone here spell hypocrisy?
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Campfire Outfitter
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People that shove ecstasy up their ass aren't usually recognized for their critical thinking skills.
Dave Quote of the day.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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This was NOT another Triagle Shirt fire, so I double it'll make the history books, or garner much sympathy.
This appears to be an example of where circumventing laws allowed nature to clean the gene pool. I've long maintained that too many laws hinder this cleansing process.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Let's keep in mind there's at least 30 sets of parents getting the worst nightmare phone call I can imagine, and post accordingly.
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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On the other hand, people dyin' in Gatlinburg, a stupic place full of stupid people just waiting for match, now THAT was a true tragedy?
Can anyone here spell hypocrisy? No hypocrisy here. If I get shot in my own driveway taking my kid to school, shame on the shooter. If I get shot because I'm partying in Chicago's worst neighborhood while wearing a KKK hood, and not carrying my CCW, then shame on me. Two different scenarios. People largely control their own risks of fate with what they do.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Let's keep in mind there's at least 30 sets of parents getting the worst nightmare phone call I can imagine, and post accordingly.
P Realistically, probably 18 sets, but we get your point.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They relied on their government to protect them from such danger. They should have developed brains and relied on those instead.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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With no sprinklers, inadequate exits, rolled carpets (Cyanide production) extensive fuel loading (Raw wood, lumber, furniture) and extensive use of extension cords I don't think that you could plan a better recipe for disaster.
Somebody in the Oakland Prevention Bureau screwed the pooch on allowing this place to operate. Their website says that "Inspection oh high hazard occupancies and fire code enforcement" are among their priorities .....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I can't believe so many people here can't see the ravers doing what they want instead of what the local .gov decrees. I guess everyone here is in total lockstep with their local/state/fed laws.
As for me, I've seen enough burned bodies to last a lifetime. I feel for the families and for those that have to continue the horrible task of recovering those bodies.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I can't believe so many people here can't see the ravers doing what they want instead of what the local .gov decrees. I guess everyone here is in total lockstep with their local/state/fed laws.
As for me, I've seen enough burned bodies to last a lifetime. I feel for the families and for those that have to continue the horrible task of recovering those bodies. Very well stated. As code enforcement and a firefighter, these things are nightmares...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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if you would like to donate :
search for oakland fire donations
please verify.
housing is a huge issue in the bay area , there are many other warehouses being used as home.
P.
Last edited by persiandog; 12/05/16.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Small and big venue live music, pubs, restaurants...........old stuff in big cities is cool.
But you gotta be watchful. Situational awareness is not just looking out for thugs ......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Television news last night showed Google Earth images of the venue time lapsed over several years. The back lot behind the warehouse had been accumulating an ever growing pile of refuse for years.
The most recent photos showed the lot fully covered in garbage many feet deep.
Whether this is relevant to the initiation of the blaze, I do not know. But I am sure it had a deleterious effect on suppression efforts.
I am waiting to hear news that the owner of the venue is behind bars.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I just saw an article where the lessee, who was subletting space and putting on the parties and raves, was despondent about the loss of the venue.
He didn't have much to say about the loss of life.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You can legally free-climb Half Dome, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_xq-XAqG4obut people are paying out on those who risked their life in a building in breech of the city fire code.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Outfitter
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You may legally climb 1/2 Dome but most wouldn't, it takes effort and commitment. I can only imagine the stench of that many crispy hippies.  mike r
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You may legally climb 1/2 Dome but most wouldn't, it takes effort and commitment.
Yet the point is the gov. won't stop anyone who wants to attempt it. I ike this one the best, people on ropes playing it 'safe' and they get blitzed by a free climber ...hilarious, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqXAsXiTXY0
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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The point is the government should have no say in either. I don't wish death on kids at a rave or a free climber. But I couldn't muster a whole schit ton of sympathy if either slipped and died. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Situational awareness is not just looking out for thugs ......
thats for damn sure. i stress this to my kids all the time. watch for the danger in all situations and have a plan before you need it.
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The big difference being the free climber generally has a pretty solid grasp of hazard awareness, he puts himself in a risky situation and knows what's up. The hippy artist, tends to have a pretty tenuous grasp of reality, and that when sober.
Not quite sure what the answer is. Government can't protect every fool from themselves, but there needs to be some level of protection from businesses that run buildings that are firetraps.
Do you say F it with fire codes and just hold the business owners criminally negligent when dozens of people die in their buildings?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Recovery of Oakland fire victims winds down; investigation goes forward via Yahoo News Digest https://www.yahoo.com/digest/201612...inds-investigation-goes-forward-00540938 the property owner did not rent the building out to be lived in or to throw parties in, it was rented out only as an artist studio. In fact, whenThe owner found beds inside, the tenant was asked if anyone was living there, The tenant lied and said, "Sometimes an artist Works through the night." There are multiple multiple reports of extension cords all over the place, And if the building is as old as it sounds it might even have screw in fuses (if so, I would bet on finding pennies or foil, Behind the fuses. This sounds to me (And perhaps only me) Like a heavily overloaded electrical system, On the part of the tenant not the landlord.
Last edited by kellory; 12/06/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...?
She's gone shootin..
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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watch the tenant being interviewed. he's a friggen brainless "artist". no common sense. no situational awareness. the sensibility of a 10 year old. any man who let that schit go down on his watch is culpable and needs punished for the good of society.
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
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Choices have consequences. Party in a dump, dance with the Devil.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Travis, you are correct. I was not aware of the owner/tenent relationship. When I wrote "owner of the venue" I meant the guy holding the door open and taking the proceeds from the engagement. I wrongfully assumed that would be the property owner.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase.
Last edited by kellory; 12/06/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks.
Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... I agree 100% with you Cert. 100%
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Posts: 30,951
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase. The people living there were paying rent to someone, and told to hide bedding etc if the code inspectors arrived. The owners knew of this illegal activity, knew it was not to code, and were happy to collect the rent until people died. There are plenty of prison cells to go around.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Here are some photos inside the warehouse, before the fire. http://abc13.com/news/photos-inside-oakland-warehouse-before-inferno/1639407/#gallery-1Honestly, I can think of some antique malls that are just about as cluttered and maze-like, with space rented out to many different people, and the exits not well marked. And in my youth I partied in some places that were probably just about as dangerous. That whole area, whether on the Oakland side of the bay, or the SF side, is expensive to live in, and people with marginal income are are going to wind up in similar places. If any good comes of the disaster, maybe some people will realize that your karma, art, and spirituality won't help you if you live in a tinderbox with bad wiring. 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've dated several artists in my lifetime. I happen to like a creative mind. but not one of them would follow the rules. And not one was faithful. One would rather steal for me then ask her folks for money ( of which they had in plenty).
I consider the term "artist" warning flag these days. I have had experience with some gunsmiths that consider themselves artists and they exhibited serious moral flaws in business. It don't talk a genius to figure out that climbing a stack of pallets to the second floor to party with a bunch of idiots, might not be the best idea.
Journalists reporting from wars zones, people recreationally climbing mountains, solo sailing across oceans, but FFS please don't climb a pallet staircase to the second floor of a warehouse. Think fuel loading, flashy fuels, no escape routes, and the truly terrible pain of being burned/suffocated alive.
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Campfire Outfitter
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News on the way home points to a refrigerator shorting out.
Terrible loss, no politics needed.
Sean
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Campfire Outfitter
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On the other hand, people dyin' in Gatlinburg, a stupic place full of stupid people just waiting for match, now THAT was a true tragedy?
Can anyone here spell hypocrisy? Talk about hypocrisy, what about all those Cali elite educated luminary liberals who choose to live in the tinder box called southern California? Doesn't that burn year after year after year and they keep rebuilding there expecting a different outcome?
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase. The people living there were paying rent to someone, and told to hide bedding etc if the code inspectors arrived. The owners knew of this illegal activity, knew it was not to code, and were happy to collect the rent until people died. There are plenty of prison cells to go around. please document where anyone was told to hide bedding this is the first mention I've heard of it. I did read that the owner questioned finding a bed and was told " sometimes an artist Works through the night". Nowhere have I found he was told to hide it.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article...led-building-10778749.php#photo-11984368Looks like a lot of blame to go around. "Grand jury members are barred from speaking individually about an investigation, but one source who had a hand in the report told us that Fire Department officials “were quite concerned” about the missed inspections. Nonetheless, the source said, they chose to not bolster their fee-collecting efforts because that might divert money needed to retain firefighters. “They didn’t seem to understand their mission — their mission seemed to be to keep (firefighters’) jobs,” the source said." (It seems some folks believe that firefighters should work for free, when another department dropped extra work on them, without funding.)
Last edited by kellory; 12/07/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Posts: 37,875
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,875 |
I'm with the none of these people remotely deserved to die like that camp. Lots of bad karma associated with the guy who was running the place.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-charisma-threats-violence-rituals.html..and OMG what a friggin' tinderbox that place was.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Regular
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Yes, seeing those pictures of the interior prior the fire reminded me of antique stores I have been forced to be subject to entering. I always used the excuse that they made me dizzy and tired (and poor), but now I have a new excuse not to stop at any of them.
My only wonder is who the victims will vote for in the NEXT presidential election?
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