Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Oakland Fire

The point is the government should have no say in either.

I don't wish death on kids at a rave or a free climber.

But I couldn't muster a whole schit ton of sympathy if either slipped and died.




Dave

thats for damn sure. i stress this to my kids all the time. watch for the danger in all situations and have a plan before you need it.

Is raving an occupation?

The big difference being the free climber generally has a pretty solid grasp of hazard awareness, he puts himself in a risky situation and knows what's up. The hippy artist, tends to have a pretty tenuous grasp of reality, and that when sober.

Not quite sure what the answer is. Government can't protect every fool from themselves, but there needs to be some level of protection from businesses that run buildings that are firetraps.

Do you say F it with fire codes and just hold the business owners criminally negligent when dozens of people die in their buildings?

Recovery of Oakland fire victims winds down; investigation goes forward via Yahoo News Digest

https://www.yahoo.com/digest/201612...inds-investigation-goes-forward-00540938



the property owner did not rent the building out to be lived in or to throw parties in, it was rented out only as an artist studio. In fact, whenThe owner found beds inside, the tenant was asked if anyone was living there, The tenant lied and said, "Sometimes an artist Works through the night."
There are multiple multiple reports of extension cords all over the place, And if the building is as old as it sounds it might even have screw in fuses (if so, I would bet on finding pennies or foil, Behind the fuses.
This sounds to me (And perhaps only me) Like a heavily overloaded electrical system, On the part of the tenant not the landlord.

How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?

Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"

No.

Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."

No.

The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.



Dave

Agreed...

watch the tenant being interviewed. he's a friggen brainless "artist". no common sense. no situational awareness. the sensibility of a 10 year old. any man who let that schit go down on his watch is culpable and needs punished for the good of society.

Choices have consequences. Party in a dump, dance with the Devil.

Travis, you are correct. I was not aware of the owner/tenent relationship.

When I wrote "owner of the venue" I meant the guy holding the door open and taking the proceeds from the engagement. I wrongfully assumed that would be the property owner.

Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse.
Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial.
The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used.
The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.)

The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase.

I agree 100% with you Cert. 100%

The people living there were paying rent to someone, and told to hide bedding etc if the code inspectors arrived.

The owners knew of this illegal activity, knew it was not to code, and were happy to collect the rent until people died.

There are plenty of prison cells to go around.

Here are some photos inside the warehouse, before the fire.

http://abc13.com/news/photos-inside-oakland-warehouse-before-inferno/1639407/#gallery-1

Honestly, I can think of some antique malls that are just about as cluttered and maze-like, with space rented out to many different people, and the exits not well marked. And in my youth I partied in some places that were probably just about as dangerous.

That whole area, whether on the Oakland side of the bay, or the SF side, is expensive to live in, and people with marginal income are are going to wind up in similar places.

If any good comes of the disaster, maybe some people will realize that your karma, art, and spirituality won't help you if you live in a tinderbox with bad wiring.

Think fuel loading, flashy fuels, no escape routes, and the truly terrible pain of being burned/suffocated alive.

News on the way home points to a refrigerator shorting out.

Terrible loss, no politics needed.

Talk about hypocrisy, what about all those Cali elite educated luminary liberals who choose to live in the tinder box called southern California?

Doesn't that burn year after year after year and they keep rebuilding there expecting a different outcome?

please document where anyone was told to hide bedding this is the first mention I've heard of it. I did read that the owner questioned finding a bed and was told " sometimes an artist Works through the night". Nowhere have I found he was told to hide it.

http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article...led-building-10778749.php#photo-11984368
Looks like a lot of blame to go around.

"Grand jury members are barred from speaking individually about an investigation, but one source who had a hand in the report told us that Fire Department officials “were quite concerned” about the missed inspections. Nonetheless, the source said, they chose to not bolster their fee-collecting efforts because that might divert money needed to retain firefighters.

“They didn’t seem to understand their mission — their mission seemed to be to keep (firefighters’) jobs,” the source said."

(It seems some folks believe that firefighters should work for free, when another department dropped extra work on them, without funding.)

I'm with the none of these people remotely deserved to die like that camp.

Lots of bad karma associated with the guy who was running the place....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-charisma-threats-violence-rituals.html

..and OMG what a friggin' tinderbox that place was.