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Here is a little history lesson about the Sioux. The Standing Rock Nation is a creation of the Federal Government/Congress. We recognize their sovereignty simply because we do. They were never a land-based-and-bordered nation in their entire history. That is a "white guy" concept. More specifically, the actual ancestral homeland of the Lakota and Dakota is hundreds of miles to the east in Minnesota, not North or South Dakota.
The "Sioux" were driven west by the Anishinabe/AKA Ojibwe/Chippewa in the mid-late 1700's. They arrived with only dogs for pack animals, and were a woodland hunter-gatherer culture. The voyageurs were exploring the Missouri about the same time the “Sioux” were finding their way into the territory. “White Men” have been in those lands roughly as long as those claiming to be the Standing Rock Nation. By those standards “White Eyes” is as “Native” to the Dakotas as the Lakota and Dakota.
Encounters with the Cheyenne (warring and stealing their way into horsemanship) provided the “Sioux” with horses and they absorbed the Cheyenne lifestyle of plains nomads, perpetually following the bison for food and supplies. The Cheyenne and and Lakota in particular became heated enemies and killed each other with atrocious abandon, and both set upon the actual natives of North Dakota, the Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara, and other smaller tribes, drove them north to where they now live as a combined tribe, because they began to build villages close together and unite in self-protection from the Lakota who now have their ancestral lands in Standing Rock. As luck would have it, the MHA Nation as they now call themselves, based in the Fort Berthold reservation, right over the fat spot in the Bakken oil reserves, run their own wells, pump and transport, and own their proprietary production company, are halfway done with a refinery, and produce over 11% of the entire production of oil from the Bakken field.
Eventually, the Lakota became the most fierce and therefore greatest of the plains tribes and drove the once-superior Cheyenne west and the formerly magnificent Kiowa south. The so-called "Sioux" lands preserved by either the treaty of 1851, or the treaty of 1868, or the Congressional actions of 1875 that extended the reservation back up to the Cannonball River were all simply cases of the US validating the “Sioux” claims to stolen lands, from tribes conquered by brutal force by the Lakota and Dakota. The Standing Rock Nation took their so-called “sovereign” or “ancestral” lands from it's rightful "owners," the Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara, Kiowa, Cheyenne, and others. And they did it by criminally degenerate force, rape, pillage and torture.
When the "white man" was making those treaties with the “Sioux” in 1851, declaring the whole region the “Great Sioux Reservation,” the Lakota and Dakota had only been on that land a few generations—perhaps a hundred years or so. The Arikara they drove off had been there since AD 1500, followed by the Cheyenne, Crow, Kiowa and Pawnee—all centuries before the “Sioux.” The Arikara claim to that land simply put, preceeds the treaty of 1851 by 300 years. So, you tell me: how is it I should feel sorry for the Standing Rock “Sioux” because of a pipeline they really have nothing to do with and isn't going to hurt them anyway?
How far back do you want to go in this quest for "sovereignty?"
Plus, none of those treaties give the Standing Rock Nation any rights other than to be consulted. And keep in mind, this "tribe" was only chartered in 1959 as a united "tribe."I mean, literally, the whole tribe and reservation itself is just over a hundred years old, and legally speaking, the tribe itself was only federally incorporated as such, one "sovereign nation" under a constitution written in 1959. Frankly, I'm older than this tribe is, again, legally speaking.
Music washes away the dust of everyday life Some people wait a lifetime to meet their favorite hunting and shooting buddy. Mine calls me dad
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......out of 17+ billion barrels since 1977.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Got any numbers on how much leakes each year from the pipelines. Its not a small number. Seeing that you are to lazy to do your own research I thought I would do it for you. It only took me about a hour to find these FACTS, It would be nice if you'd post the links to the sources of that. Did you read it?PHMSA - the Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration - Office of Pipeline Safety Look it up I broke their numbers down so it would be easier to understand. Yes, I read it, and I can go to their site and sift through pages and pages of things hoping to find what you posted OR you could simply include a link that goes directly to the page where you found it since you were already there. It's just one more copy and paste that saves others lots of searching.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thank you for the info. As for treaties, if I gave you my word yesterday, it would still be binding today. Age has no relevance to honoring your word. If my memory is correct, we have broken more treaties with the Indians than we have honered. If it is to our advantage, we take it. It was true when silver was discovered, it was true when gold was found. We signed treaty that no white men would go in these places, and we didn't enforce it, traders, trappers, miners, (and anyone else with enough guns) took up residence in Indian domain. So, I'm wondering where the path of honor lies with this. (I will finish the provided info, as i have time). Thank you for your insights.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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Would it not be great if we could live in a risk free world. Well we don't so we will have to do the best we can. That includes moving oil. We all know we need it but some think others should take all the risk. The refinerys are not always close to the supply. Pipe lines are the best way to move crude and finished products. Hasbeen
hasbeen (Better a has been than a never was!)
NRA Patron member Try to live your life where the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral
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Campfire Ranger
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The link I will post shows there are 2.3 million miles of pipeline moving a variety of liquid and gaseous forms of fossil fuels. Take the link to other data if you wish. The DAPL is the merger of three flash points: disdain for "big oil", concern for "climate change" and there treatment of the "First Nation". It is ironic when viewing the photos from the protest site to see: portable generators, cook stoves, heaters and gas/diesel burning vehicles. It is also telling to see the protestors routinely burn vehicle tires for whatever reason. Ultimately the decision will be made to provide for the "public good" in the least intrusive and impactful manner. http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...f7280665b91ac010VgnVCM1000008049a8c0RCRD
Last edited by bigwhoop; 12/05/16.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Got any numbers on how much leakes each year from the pipelines. Its not a small number. [bleep] you are one big, [bleep] idiot. This is the second thread you throw around numbers, yet are unable to back them up. When confronted with REAL numbers and proof you run off. What a [bleep] tool.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Got any numbers on how much leakes each year from the pipelines. Its not a small number. [bleep] you are one big, [bleep] idiot. This is the second thread you throw around numbers, yet are unable to back them up. When confronted with REAL numbers and proof you run off. What a [bleep] tool. No kidding. Nobody but a liberal would have use for a pipeline that leaked. Duh...
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Hell, I've NEVER owned property that didn't have a pipeline easement on it.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
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Campfire Ranger
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The pipeline protest, probably over global warming claims, is now getting hit by a blizzard. Reality has such a great sense of irony
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That's why the Keystone pipeline is largely symbolic. The answer is obvious if one just looks at that map. Open up all those offshore pipelines in the Gulf and allow drilling in other offshore locations and the problem is solved. No need to pipe crude 2000 miles from a foreign country to facilities capable of processing it. The problem is obvious too. Obama's administration and liberals don't want oil. Period. They live in an alternate reality where they dream of the day that unicorn turds will power the world.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Well its not cold here yet but it is storming pretty good. 30 to 40 mph winds and snow. Its still 15 above so anybody still there is lucky. I have a friend who wrote a son in about 1980. 40 below keeps the riff raff out. ED K
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Here is a little history lesson about the Sioux. The Standing Rock Nation is a creation of the Federal Government/Congress. We recognize their sovereignty simply because we do. They were never a land-based-and-bordered nation in their entire history. That is a "white guy" concept. More specifically, the actual ancestral homeland of the Lakota and Dakota is hundreds of miles to the east in Minnesota, not North or South Dakota.
The "Sioux" were driven west by the Anishinabe/AKA Ojibwe/Chippewa in the mid-late 1700's. They arrived with only dogs for pack animals, and were a woodland hunter-gatherer culture. The voyageurs were exploring the Missouri about the same time the “Sioux” were finding their way into the territory. “White Men” have been in those lands roughly as long as those claiming to be the Standing Rock Nation. By those standards “White Eyes” is as “Native” to the Dakotas as the Lakota and Dakota.
Encounters with the Cheyenne (warring and stealing their way into horsemanship) provided the “Sioux” with horses and they absorbed the Cheyenne lifestyle of plains nomads, perpetually following the bison for food and supplies. The Cheyenne and and Lakota in particular became heated enemies and killed each other with atrocious abandon, and both set upon the actual natives of North Dakota, the Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara, and other smaller tribes, drove them north to where they now live as a combined tribe, because they began to build villages close together and unite in self-protection from the Lakota who now have their ancestral lands in Standing Rock. As luck would have it, the MHA Nation as they now call themselves, based in the Fort Berthold reservation, right over the fat spot in the Bakken oil reserves, run their own wells, pump and transport, and own their proprietary production company, are halfway done with a refinery, and produce over 11% of the entire production of oil from the Bakken field.
Eventually, the Lakota became the most fierce and therefore greatest of the plains tribes and drove the once-superior Cheyenne west and the formerly magnificent Kiowa south. The so-called "Sioux" lands preserved by either the treaty of 1851, or the treaty of 1868, or the Congressional actions of 1875 that extended the reservation back up to the Cannonball River were all simply cases of the US validating the “Sioux” claims to stolen lands, from tribes conquered by brutal force by the Lakota and Dakota. The Standing Rock Nation took their so-called “sovereign” or “ancestral” lands from it's rightful "owners," the Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara, Kiowa, Cheyenne, and others. And they did it by criminally degenerate force, rape, pillage and torture.
When the "white man" was making those treaties with the “Sioux” in 1851, declaring the whole region the “Great Sioux Reservation,” the Lakota and Dakota had only been on that land a few generations—perhaps a hundred years or so. The Arikara they drove off had been there since AD 1500, followed by the Cheyenne, Crow, Kiowa and Pawnee—all centuries before the “Sioux.” The Arikara claim to that land simply put, preceeds the treaty of 1851 by 300 years. So, you tell me: how is it I should feel sorry for the Standing Rock “Sioux” because of a pipeline they really have nothing to do with and isn't going to hurt them anyway?
How far back do you want to go in this quest for "sovereignty?"
Plus, none of those treaties give the Standing Rock Nation any rights other than to be consulted. And keep in mind, this "tribe" was only chartered in 1959 as a united "tribe."I mean, literally, the whole tribe and reservation itself is just over a hundred years old, and legally speaking, the tribe itself was only federally incorporated as such, one "sovereign nation" under a constitution written in 1959. Frankly, I'm older than this tribe is, again, legally speaking. Truth. May I add that the, sacred to the Sioux, Black Hills were taken by brutal force from the Arikara since white men started recording history there. People are people. There are Indian folks in the Black Hills who are trying, actively, to erase this history.
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the bottom line is that it's an issue of land ownership. once that hurdle is past, the rest is just installing the pipeline.
this country runs on oil. both sides of the issue know that. BINGO. The end game by the tribe and by extension the other tribes is the issues of tribal sovereignty and recognition of valid treaties. This will be a court case that will go on for years, and has the potential to have far reaching impact in multiple states amd cost billions of dollars. There are multiple cases where on treaty was signed with a tribe, then a few years later when the government unilaterally changed the conditions, or took away land. Maybe in 1880 the tribe couldn't do anything about it. But in a society of rules and laws in 2016 the tribes can contest these things and possibly address past grievances in the court system. A right leaning supreme court is an advantage, in most of these situations. The racist remarks are interesting, hopefully they are kept to these boards.
Grandpa fought Fascists in WWII, Dad fought Communists in Vietnam. - American is meant for the middle.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
the bottom line is that it's an issue of land ownership. once that hurdle is past, the rest is just installing the pipeline.
this country runs on oil. both sides of the issue know that. BINGO. The end game by the tribe and by extension the other tribes is the issues of tribal sovereignty and recognition of valid treaties. This will be a court case that will go on for years, and has the potential to have far reaching impact in multiple states amd cost billions of dollars. There are multiple cases where on treaty was signed with a tribe, then a few years later when the government unilaterally changed the conditions, or took away land. Maybe in 1880 the tribe couldn't do anything about it. But in a society of rules and laws in 2016 the tribes can contest these things and possibly address past grievances in the court system. A right leaning supreme court is an advantage, in most of these situations. The racist remarks are interesting, hopefully they are kept to these boards. Just great, another poster that should have been swallowed.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Just saw on the news where the( scum sucking cops) have to go tent to tent and try and get these dumn asses to safety. Funny how all these asses hate the cops but its who they call when the schit hits the fan. Hoping for safety for the police. ED K
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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Just saw on the news where the( scum sucking cops) have to go tent to tent and try and get these dumn asses to safety. Funny how all these asses hate the cops but its who they call when the schit hits the fan. Hoping for safety for the police. ED K They better be careful that they don't get shot at again.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Go check on them in the spring. Hope they don't run out off heating oil. Hasbeen
hasbeen (Better a has been than a never was!)
NRA Patron member Try to live your life where the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Go check on them in the spring. Hope they don't run out off heating oil. Hasbeen Or use the water cannon to evict them from their tents...
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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