|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
The point is the government should have no say in either. I don't wish death on kids at a rave or a free climber. But I couldn't muster a whole schit ton of sympathy if either slipped and died. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
Situational awareness is not just looking out for thugs ......
thats for damn sure. i stress this to my kids all the time. watch for the danger in all situations and have a plan before you need it.
My diploma is a DD214
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,414
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,414 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
The big difference being the free climber generally has a pretty solid grasp of hazard awareness, he puts himself in a risky situation and knows what's up. The hippy artist, tends to have a pretty tenuous grasp of reality, and that when sober.
Not quite sure what the answer is. Government can't protect every fool from themselves, but there needs to be some level of protection from businesses that run buildings that are firetraps.
Do you say F it with fire codes and just hold the business owners criminally negligent when dozens of people die in their buildings?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
Recovery of Oakland fire victims winds down; investigation goes forward via Yahoo News Digest https://www.yahoo.com/digest/201612...inds-investigation-goes-forward-00540938 the property owner did not rent the building out to be lived in or to throw parties in, it was rented out only as an artist studio. In fact, whenThe owner found beds inside, the tenant was asked if anyone was living there, The tenant lied and said, "Sometimes an artist Works through the night." There are multiple multiple reports of extension cords all over the place, And if the building is as old as it sounds it might even have screw in fuses (if so, I would bet on finding pennies or foil, Behind the fuses. This sounds to me (And perhaps only me) Like a heavily overloaded electrical system, On the part of the tenant not the landlord.
Last edited by kellory; 12/06/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,708 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,708 Likes: 7 |
She never made it past the bedroom door, what was she aiming for...? She's gone shootin..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
watch the tenant being interviewed. he's a friggen brainless "artist". no common sense. no situational awareness. the sensibility of a 10 year old. any man who let that schit go down on his watch is culpable and needs punished for the good of society.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,282 Likes: 37
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,282 Likes: 37 |
Choices have consequences. Party in a dump, dance with the Devil.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,178 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,178 Likes: 23 |
How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Travis, you are correct. I was not aware of the owner/tenent relationship. When I wrote "owner of the venue" I meant the guy holding the door open and taking the proceeds from the engagement. I wrongfully assumed that would be the property owner.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase.
Last edited by kellory; 12/06/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,403 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,403 Likes: 17 |
JFC some of y'all are miserable pricks. Buncha folks who weren't hurtin anybody got burned alive but they deserved it because of... ummm...CA politics... I agree 100% with you Cert. 100%
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,259 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,259 Likes: 16 |
How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase. The people living there were paying rent to someone, and told to hide bedding etc if the code inspectors arrived. The owners knew of this illegal activity, knew it was not to code, and were happy to collect the rent until people died. There are plenty of prison cells to go around.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,276
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,276 |
Here are some photos inside the warehouse, before the fire. http://abc13.com/news/photos-inside-oakland-warehouse-before-inferno/1639407/#gallery-1Honestly, I can think of some antique malls that are just about as cluttered and maze-like, with space rented out to many different people, and the exits not well marked. And in my youth I partied in some places that were probably just about as dangerous. That whole area, whether on the Oakland side of the bay, or the SF side, is expensive to live in, and people with marginal income are are going to wind up in similar places. If any good comes of the disaster, maybe some people will realize that your karma, art, and spirituality won't help you if you live in a tinderbox with bad wiring.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366 |
I've dated several artists in my lifetime. I happen to like a creative mind. but not one of them would follow the rules. And not one was faithful. One would rather steal for me then ask her folks for money ( of which they had in plenty). I consider the term "artist" warning flag these days. I have had experience with some gunsmiths that consider themselves artists and they exhibited serious moral flaws in business. It don't talk a genius to figure out that climbing a stack of pallets to the second floor to party with a bunch of idiots, might not be the best idea. Journalists reporting from wars zones, people recreationally climbing mountains, solo sailing across oceans, but FFS please don't climb a pallet staircase to the second floor of a warehouse. Think fuel loading, flashy fuels, no escape routes, and the truly terrible pain of being burned/suffocated alive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,743
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,743 |
News on the way home points to a refrigerator shorting out.
Terrible loss, no politics needed.
Sean
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258 |
On the other hand, people dyin' in Gatlinburg, a stupic place full of stupid people just waiting for match, now THAT was a true tragedy?
Can anyone here spell hypocrisy? Talk about hypocrisy, what about all those Cali elite educated luminary liberals who choose to live in the tinder box called southern California? Doesn't that burn year after year after year and they keep rebuilding there expecting a different outcome?
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
How the fugk is the landlord even a topic of conversation?
Would you rent a fugking camper in a warehouse and think "Gee, seems legit?"
No.
Would you climb a staircase made of pallets and think "I'm sure the owner knows what he's doing."
No.
The only way there is any culpability here is if there was arson.
Dave Simple, several times so far folks have blamed the "owner" not the tenant. Calling for punishment upon the owner for what sounds like tenant abuse. Like going after a landlord when a tenant opens a business without permits, or being zoned commercial. The owner may not have even been aware of how his property was being used. The second floor might have only been a storage loft. Accessed by ladder and loaded and off loaded by forklift. (I've worked on a few building like that.) The tenant is the one concerned with his missing art, and not a word about the dead. He is most likely the architect of the staircase. The people living there were paying rent to someone, and told to hide bedding etc if the code inspectors arrived. The owners knew of this illegal activity, knew it was not to code, and were happy to collect the rent until people died. There are plenty of prison cells to go around. please document where anyone was told to hide bedding this is the first mention I've heard of it. I did read that the owner questioned finding a bed and was told " sometimes an artist Works through the night". Nowhere have I found he was told to hide it.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article...led-building-10778749.php#photo-11984368Looks like a lot of blame to go around. "Grand jury members are barred from speaking individually about an investigation, but one source who had a hand in the report told us that Fire Department officials “were quite concerned” about the missed inspections. Nonetheless, the source said, they chose to not bolster their fee-collecting efforts because that might divert money needed to retain firefighters. “They didn’t seem to understand their mission — their mission seemed to be to keep (firefighters’) jobs,” the source said." (It seems some folks believe that firefighters should work for free, when another department dropped extra work on them, without funding.)
Last edited by kellory; 12/07/16.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,976 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,976 Likes: 10 |
I'm with the none of these people remotely deserved to die like that camp. Lots of bad karma associated with the guy who was running the place.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-charisma-threats-violence-rituals.html..and OMG what a friggin' tinderbox that place was.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
|
|
|
|
441 members (1936M71, 222Sako, 160user, 17CalFan, 163bc, 10ring1, 50 invisible),
11,478
guests, and
1,281
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,195,345
Posts18,546,522
Members74,060
|
Most Online21,066 May 26th, 2024
|
|
|
|