Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Accuracy issues with my new 243?

yes there is enough neck tension...

I'm a guy who single feeds my rifles...except for deer hunting...

The 87 grain SP I used the last two deer seasons, set to the same length as the dummy round, would fit in the magazine...

Shot several decent groups at OAL of 2.625 and worked up from there. I also played around with the powder charge of IMR4064. Worked all the way up to 42.3 Gr, which is .8gr higher than the highest Max charge in any of my loading manuals with no pressure signs. I settled on 42gr and the OAL of 2.625. I worked seating depth up to 2.700 with okay groups, just seemed to like the deeper seating depth the most. I have shot enough groups with that combination to feel like it is accurate enough for what I will use the gun for.

I am fixin to start coyote hunting and it should do the trick!

Anyone chronographed 4064 with bullets around 70gr?

HeavyBarrel

I think I wrote in an earlier post that my favorite powder for the 243 is W760. I have never got a "bad" load with it. My next favorite is IMR4064, and though it's an "old" powder, I think it's still a good one. A lot of these old school powders work very well.

Heavybarrel, exactly how are you "cleaning" this barrel???? When you believe you have it clean are you able to look in the bore with a borescope??? I am going to guess not.
Remington barrels typically have some tooling marks and they also typically will copper up, especially when new. I can tell you that for certain, many people claim to have "cleaned" their rifle and many honestly believe the bore is clean and that the product they are using works great...when in fact it does not.
I have tried them all and found only a few bore cleaners that really work and get the copper out. Some very popular ones will work...if you leave them soaking in the bore for a week. Your rifle sounds exactly like a typical copper fouled bore that is not getting really clean.
At this point I would suggest your next move to be to find someone with a borescope and have it looked at BEFORE you spend any more money or try any other "remedies". Maybe it's not copper fouled and maybe you are truly getting it clean, but I can tell you I have seen scopes replaced, barrels replaced, stocks bedded 3 times, triggers bought, bullets and powder changed and tried, rests, benches, shooters, targets, and the only thing wrong with the rifle was copper in the bore, an owner not willing to believe it and bore cleaner that does not work.
Personally, I have had very good luck with Speer TNT bullets. I have a 7mm-08 that will put them in the same hole, but it wont do that with Match bullets.

I'm an old man so I'll ramble on a bit. Ever notice 22 match hollow points. The come in 52 and 53 grain weights. One flat base the other is a boat tail. Let your rifle decide with it likes. Some rifles like a long Bering surface others not so much.
Nosler says the bullet is a 95% of accuracy. Any number of powers will shoot the right bullet accurate.
Also a cheap way to determine length from the lands is to use a dowel rod. Stick a bullet in the lands and run the rod down the barrel and mark at the muzzle with an xacto knife. Remove the bullet and run the rod to the bolt face and mark with knife. Measure with cailipers and subtract .015 or so. The only limit is a short mag box. Hasbeen

msinc, I use Butches Bore Shine, have for years. I typically run patches saturated with Buches down the bore till all visible powder residue is absent from patch. I swab back and forth and leave solvent in the bore for at least 10 minutes, then check for signs of copper, (Blue on patch) If any trace is noticed, I run three solvent patches through bore then let sit another 10 minutes. I repeat till I see no evidence of copper or very light stained patches. I then run a couple patches of Kroil through bore to remove solvent, followed by a dry patch to push out Kroil. Been cleaning like this for years and have never had a rifle give me this much trouble. I usually send them down the road if they are to finicky.

HeavyBarrel

Shot gun about 35 times today with 4064, and Varget. Tumbling all my Remington brass that I have been using so I worked up 50 Winchester brass. I tried the same powder charge and seating depth that I had used to shoot the good groups the evening before, the only change was Winchester brass. It didnt like the Winchester brass! Tried some 75gr V-Max's and 4064, at several seating depths and it would not shoot to my liking. I also tried some 80gr Barnes TTSX's and it didnt like them!! Figured I would give Varget another try and thought that I might be on to something when I shot a 1/2" 3 shot group with the 70gr TNT at the same seating depth as the good groups from 4064 and Remington brass. I measure OAL and Ogive. The ogive is 3.175. That is where previous good groups have measured. After shooting the 1/2" group, I through together 5 more and shot at same bullseye. the total group measured around 1 3/4" for 8 shots. I am unsure about the gun! It is driving me crazy!! I have 10 more of the 4064 load that shot good yesterday, I had put them up in case I decided to go try and call a coyote. I am going to shoot them tomorrow, weather permitting, and if they show inconsistency, I may just pull whats left of my hair out and take it to my gunsmith for a new tube!

HeavyBarrel

I have had a few rifles like yours over the years, they are nothing but frustration. Like you I have tried every trick in the book on them and they just respond with teaser groups but no consistency. I have tried different stocks, different bedding, different scopes and mounts, it seems as though an occasional rifle just will not respond.

Back in the early 90's when the 700 first became available in 260 Rem I bought one and it was the absolute worse grouping,most inconsistent rifle I have ever owned. I did all of the usual tricks without making much headway - I finally took it to them smith to have the action trued, barrel crown touched up, etc. When I picked it up he said that he had never seen a 700 as out of tolerance as that one was. When he trued the bolt there was a high spot on it about 1/3 of the way around the bolt just behind the locking lugs, both lugs had to be trued to make good contact and the bolt face had to be trued. It shot ok after all of that but even then it was no better than any of my other 700's.

Sometimes you have to accept that you may have a POS and move on to a different rifle.

drover

Yeah, problem children can drive you NUTS.

Had a barrel like that. It would not shoot ANYTHING like it should, I found a load that was "functional" in I'd get four out of five in the "tiny group," but still, out P-Dogging I'd not know if EYE missed or the GUN missed.

Then, I got so mad I attacked the barrel with valve compound, I was a tired puppy when I was done being mad. Well -- then I shot another load that was "gopher" class (this was a 22BR) and it was drilling holes with that, and ONLY that.

Eventually, I took that tube off, and later when I wanted a Fireball, that tube was the victim (hey, it was free scrap metal at that point). Well, it's GREAT as a Fireball. Go figure.

Heavybarrel...if Butch's Bore Shine is what you have used in other rifles for years and you haven't had any problems it is because those rifles don't copper foul. This will probably make a few people mad, but...that is probably one of the poorest performing bore cleaners available today. It ranks right up there with most of the "foaming" bore cleaners that also accomplish zero {unless you leave them in the bore for a week} and even then many still do nothing to copper.
The people that swear by Butch's almost invariably DO NOT own a borescope. If they did they would get over their infatuation with the stuff.
I have been lucky with the two 243's that I own, both are tack drivers, but I do know and have seen many 243 rifles that were picky about ammo, whether it be the powder and charge, the brand bullet or the seating depth.
Buy a new barrel if you want to, but I would definitely suggest getting some JB Bore Cleaner or Iosso paste and following the instructions first. What ever it says to do, do it twice. Good luck and good shooting.

msinc, I do have JB and will give it a try before re-barrel. I had already thought about cleaning with it, but I was not seeing the dark blue patches that I have usually seen with severely copper fouled barrels that I have dealt with in the past. At this point I am willing to try anything and this is the cheapest option.

HeavyBarrel

I would shoot some David Tubb Final Finish or TMS bullets through it.I've used both products and every rifle I used them in improved greatly.I had a 300 Win Mag that was giving me fits too.I felt like what do I have to lose.I was ready to have a new barrel put on it.I ran the whole 50 bullets through it and it grouped better than ever.I had one that kept throwing me a flier.I ran just 5 of the TMS bullets through it and that cured the problem.I would say on the average my groups shrank 50% and some even more with the use of these products.What I'm starting to think is,most of the problems are at the throat.The jacket of the bullet is compromised from the start.Here is a group I shot after running the 50 bullets through it.As you can see,I don't think it hurt the barrel at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIvvTxVnx_g

Baldhunter, that sounds like it may be worth a try. Saw they have loaded ammo. Will order some and give it a try!

HeavyBarrel

Heavybarrel,

One other thing you may want to try is taking some business cards and putting some upward pressure on the barrel at the fore-end. Even after all of the work I had done to the 260 I mentioned earlier it still never shot much better until I put some up pressure on the barrel.
Give it a try, it doesn't cost anything.

drover

I've got an ADL that was like that for the first 800 rounds or so... after that, it turned into a real tack driver...

I'm gathering Remington didn't do such a hot job of getting the barrel finished right...

it was a Walmart on sale purchase... I think Remington has all the stuff that should be 'seconds' sold to Walmart for cheap...

where the average Beavis or Butthead is thrilled if it goes bang and they can hit the target 2 out of 5 times at 50 yds...

Just ordered the Tubbs 6mm bullet kit from Midway. I figured what the heck give it a try, sure aint gonna hurt anything. I am going to follow the process to a T and will let yall know what happens. It throws the teaser groups so I think it may have some promise and most of the reviews seem to be positive. Have not read anything about it hurting accuracy.

Heavybarrel

Been cleaning and prepping brass for the Tubbs kit. Used JB's and Butches and spent better than an hour cleaning down to bare steel. May shoot the 70gr TNT, 4064, Rmington Brass load I had worked up that shot decent just to give me a base line on accuracy since it was the best so far.

HeavyBarrel

I had a .308 that shot just like that. The problem was a crooked chamber. The temporary fix was to FL size the cases, and Jam the bullet .010 into the rifling, which is ok at the range but will likely cause problems in the field.

If you try this and it shoots the same groups repeatedly, even if they are around 1", it might be livable until you can get it rebarreled. This won't cost you anything but a trip to the range to try.

I bought this gun to use as a rifle for hunting coyotes and deer so using the magazine is a necessity. If I have to single load it it is really of no use to me.
I once boughthe a remington 300 saum that had a crooked chamber. It would show pressure signs with factory ammo and with very low charge weights of powder. This 243 will easily reach max in the 4 different powders I have tried.

HeavyBarrel

Have you tried another scope on it? I had a CZ 550 in .243 that would not group. Swore it was a problem with the gun and had it bedded and a trigger job done. Still would not group.

I put another scope on it was all of a sudden producing cloverleaf groups. Sent scope to Burris and they fixed it.