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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,525 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,525 Likes: 3 |
One large wildfire on federal land turned over to the states will bankrupt that state.
States are simply not prepared, equipped or funded to deal with it.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,776
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,776 |
When I lived in Colorado the State went on a buying spree with funds that taxpayers provided for "open space". When they got the land (not much of it was federal for the most part) the environmentalists promptly got no hunting provisions established on all the open space land. They will do the same thing if the States get the Federal lands.
Make no mistake, the States would sell that land in a heart beat absent any prohibition against doing so.
Last edited by stantdm; 01/05/17.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806 |
And why not? There's plenty of room for the Feds to let loose of 10 or 20 percent of their holdings. all that could go into development and there would still be states that are mostly Federal land.
so jealous of the Mormons or whoever getting the land for cheap, get your butt out there and bid yourself. After all, it's making the other so rich you ought to be able to turn a buck too.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
One large wildfire on federal land turned over to the states will bankrupt that state.
States are simply not prepared, equipped or funded to deal with it. That's a very good point.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
One large wildfire on federal land turned over to the states will bankrupt that state.
States are simply not prepared, equipped or funded to deal with it. Wildfires are natures way, and the best thing for "the land".
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Luckily Bruce et al have their heads so far up their asses to not be able to SEE what is coming.
Right. It is coming. Make a smart choice before you have none.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
You've got two options. Let the feds keep control and the greenies will continue to enact limitations to the point that you can't recreate on the land, hint the federal agencies tasked with managing that land is inundated with greenies and that will continue.
Or you let the states manage the lands and risk some of the land being sold and private entities with those entities using it for their own use.
One way or the other you better plan on having your ability to use those lands diminished year by year.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
One large wildfire on federal land turned over to the states will bankrupt that state.
States are simply not prepared, equipped or funded to deal with it. Wildfires are natures way, and the best thing for "the land". Depends entirely upon the circumstances, the nature of the fire, and the management decisions leading up to it (including controlled burns, fuel loads, logging, fire suppression, and a host of other factors). Then again, if the Bishop bunch would stop blocking fires from actually being declared disasters under the Federal law (such as, oh, coastal flooding in flood prone areas around the Gulf Coast where we pay people to rebuild time and again...), then the budgetary hits would not be so bad. However, that budget busting is part of the ALC agenda to be able to bitch about "mismanagement" (because it's hard to manage much of anything at all when the bulk of your funding goes to a single expense every year).
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
You've got two options. Let the feds keep control and the greenies will continue to enact limitations to the point that you can't recreate on the land, hint the federal agencies tasked with managing that land is inundated with greenies and that will continue.
Or you let the states manage the lands and risk some of the land being sold and private entities with those entities using it for their own use.
One way or the other you better plan on having your ability to use those lands diminished year by year. Not some will be sold, figure all or nearly all; check the history and stated intent. You also leave out another, best option - reform the Fed management agencies.
Last edited by 4ager; 01/05/17.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 1 |
The views in this thread are indicative of the complexity in 2017. After many years of living in the midst of NF land and also hunting/exploring a lot of other Fed lands in the Southwest and West in general, I feel dead certain that giving such lands to individual states would be a BIG mistake. Many of you have illuminated the factors.
BUT - we need some serious changes in the way the NFS and BLM deal with the lands they oversee. Those who hunt/fish and otherwise enjoy such lands out here have seen their access severely limited in one after another of these forests during the past several years - some under the seemingly harmless guise of a Travel Management Plan. Bad news, that. This needs fixing.
I have witnessed the improvements wrought by sensible thinning/logging done well, and yet the NFS managers continue to roadblock such positive activity - they let out a bit at a time, some under the title of "urban interface" fire control. Those who have been near here know how ridiculously "urban" we live. This needs fixing.
Grazing leases are alloted and managed very poorly. Yes, some ranchers seem to benefit, but does the forest and do we, the owners. This needs fixing.
Then, there are the USFWS hybrids called "wolves" implanted in this forest. Do you imagine that program to be in need of fixing?
Trump could do some much-needed good if he were to grab these gov units by the neck, shake them hard until the career zeros, agenda-ridden enviro activists and selfish boors fall out of those government payrolls - and install some seriously good and well-intentioned leaders to run these places as assets for the public that owns them.
Oh - and did I mention the mentality and attitudes of many NF and BLM cops?
Good summation. Unfortunately the BLM and FS management, even at the local levels, are so dominated by the career (liberal Wilderness Society types) that nothing will change in four or even eight years. The simple answer is to go back to the principle that the Forest Service was founded on multiple use - Logging, Mining, Recreation but that is unlikely to happen. When it comes to managing the land I trust State government even less than I trust the Federal government. drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
No offense to anyone, but this conversation always makes me sick. To think that the citizens of any State rely on representatives of other States to protect their interests is disgusting.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
No offense to anyone, but this conversation always makes me sick. To think that the citizens of any State rely on representatives of other States to protect their interests is disgusting. We all do and always have. It's called a Constitutional republic.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
No offense to anyone, but this conversation always makes me sick. To think that the citizens of any State rely on representatives of other States to protect their interests is disgusting. We all do and always have. It's called a Constitutional republic. In that case...you're all welcome.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,238 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,238 Likes: 11 |
You've got two options. Let the feds keep control and the greenies will continue to enact limitations to the point that you can't recreate on the land, hint the federal agencies tasked with managing that land is inundated with greenies and that will continue.
Or you let the states manage the lands and risk some of the land being sold and private entities with those entities using it for their own use.
One way or the other you better plan on having your ability to use those lands diminished year by year. Plenty of studies and surveys have concluded the lawsuits, and subsequent court hearings would continue under state management. Very little would change under state management, but you'd be dealing with the selling component too. BLM and FS already follow all state department regs such as Dept. of Environmental Quality, their Oil and Gas Commission if a particular state has one, etc., so states already have a lot more say in the management than a lot of folks think.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,680 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,680 Likes: 3 |
I'd be more than happy to boot the ferals out and hand the land back over to the state.
![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/b6/d8/98b6d863a5f722b551cd8e1440bd2bd4.jpg) Z
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 184
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 184 |
Anyone who thinks that giving the land to the states is going to result in better management or continued access is a god damn fool. Teddy Roosevelt is turning in his grave while a debate like this is going on.
Wsmnut
Belief is often the death of reason.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
The more I can keep the Feds out of my life and my wallet, the better.
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