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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
bsa,
The "efficiency" of the .300 WSM was an advertising line Winchester came up with when it was first introduced, implying it got more velocity out of a given amount of powder room than "conventional" cases. This wasn';t true, but it does burn powder more consistently, resulting in smaller variations in pressure and velocity, which may be why it worked so well in this instance.
But it also may simply be a coincidence. As I noted above, many powders are more temperature-consistent in specific applications, which aren't necessarily predictable.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,869
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,869 |
All I used in my 300WSM was IMR4350 and at 20-degrees my average was 2900 +/- and at 80 was 2950 +/-. Resulted in about an inch at 300-yards.
Was not a concern to me since the accuracy was still good at both conditions.
Good Shooting!
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 15
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 15 |
I use a lot of it 25 06 up to 7 mags. Kills cshit out of deer and pigs. 50 fps isn't going to make any difference on game. 4350 ain't the powder to get the fastest speeds, but it's accurate in every thing I have ever tried it in. The guys on my deer lease say 4350 is an old mans powder.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,130
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,130 |
Casey,
Yep, you have to make sure the chronograph is reasonably warm. But it's not difficult, especially with a vehicle nearby. JB- Based on my reviews of NWS data from MT this winter, you should have lots of opportunities for cold wx testing...LOL!
Pursuit may be, it seems to me, perfect without possession. Robert Kelley Weeks (1840-1876)
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
Yeah, I've already run two tests, with five rifles each time, and may run another.
You picked a good winter to head south!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 15
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 15 |
IMR 4350 is hard to beat, old reliable
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
I always say.... When all else fails, try IMR 4350.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
I am beginning to think that capacity has a affect on temp stability. For instance, in my 6.5 Creedmoor velocity dropped about 70 fps when going from 80 degrees to 30 degrees with IMR 4350
In my 7mm rem mag using IMR 4350, my velocity went unchanged and ES fell within acceptable parameters of 7 fps over 10 shots..
So it seems the higher capacity cartridges help with stability mainly I think, because once you get so much of it in a case, it burns so hot it eliminates the temp problem.. That's an interesting way to look at it. I had a similar experience with RL17. In my 338-06 it performed very well, while in the 6.5 Creedmoor it lost quite a bit of velocity going from 70 to 12 deg.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
Yeah, I've already run two tests, with five rifles each time, and may run another.
You picked a good winter to head south! Any results you can share? I'd like to see any RL16 results. I just tested a 6.5 CM load that did exceptionally well. But with such a small data sample it's nice to see additional results. I don't know why, but I am oddly fascinated with this.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
I haven't even seen RL-16 anywhere, and that's not just local stores but the websites I primarily order from.
The results will be published in HANDLOADER magazine sometime this year, though I also have some more hot-weather tests to do, so probably not until fall.
I doubt case capacity has any consistent bearing on cold-resistance. Instead my tests have indicated that powder NOT specifically suggested or designed as temp-resistant will vary considerably in results in various applications, with no real pattern.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
Thanks, look forward to your results. I just picked up another 3 lbs from MidSouth Shooter Supply. Seems to be really good in the 6.5 CM.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187 |
There can't be _no_ pattern or consistency to temperature resistance, otherwise one wouldn't be able to optimize a powder for a specific cartridge-bullet weight combo. Neither would Denton likely see worse temp-resistance from Varget in his 223 than surplus military ammo, but see excellent temp-resistance from Varget in his 308 (see his paper, Pressure Factors: How Temperature, Powder, and Primer Affect Pressure). There may well be general temp-resistance characteristics one can 'apply' to any powder, but it seems clear that there's more engineering to it than that.
It has always struck me as rather curious the disparity of results from one internet shooter/hunter to another, though, when supposedly using the same powder in the same cartridge.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12 |
I always say.... When all else fails, try IMR 4350. IMR 4350 is generally the first powder I try, if it's listed in the book for that cartridge/bullet combo. I've just seen different results than the OP suggests. However I've never tried it in the 300WSM, since H4350 always seemed to get the nod from the guys here...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736 |
I always use temperature insensitive or cold tolerant powder in all my big game rifles. January temps in western mountains can vary dramatically. Last weeks hunt was pretty mundane with temperature swings - but we just missed out on a big one. Our Saturday (1-7) morning departure was a drafty -30 on the truck reading. By Monday, it was 43* and raining! Now for my self-imposed limit of 399 yards, a loss in some velocity may not mean much but I don't want any surprises.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2 |
John,
I'm fortunate to have a gun range where I can drive up beside the last bench and string my Oehler into the cab.
I also spoke to a Hodgdon tech this afternoon about IMR7977 and it's temp stability. He made note of different loads having different respones to temperature, but he characterized the Enduron powders as having similar temp stability to the Extreme powders.
I have only shot IMR7977 a small amount, but I can say it burns MUCH cleaner than H4831 in my 243's, 270's and a 30-06AI.
Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2 |
Now for my self-imposed limit of 399 yards, a loss in some velocity may not mean much but I don't want any surprises. That's my thinking too! Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736 |
I'm going to try to keep H4350, H4831SC and Varget as my primary powders. If I am vigilant, I think I can keep enough on hand. An 8#er may last 4 years or so which may be about enough.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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