Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles New to me 7mm-08

Good morning(it is here anyways), I'm not so much of a forum poster as a lot of people are, but I always like to contribute. I do, however, read a lot, just to see how others have done things, especially when I start a new project. I would say that 95% of my hand loading is done with cast bullets so I have always just been a part of those types of forums. The new rifle I have is going to be fed copper patched bullets so I figured I would share on this site instead of the cast bullet sites. It is, after all, where I have gleaned the most information about this cartridge.

Anyways, I thought I would share my progress in loading for this gun so that there will be just that much more info for others to read later on. Plus, I don't doubt that I will have some questions and I always have an open ear for suggestions.

The gun is a Ruger American Compact stainless. I put a Burris Fullfield E1 3x9x40 on it. I got the gun specifically for hunting the mountains of Colorado, but it will see most of its use here in the hills of NW Arkansas. Short barreled little sucker, and comes in right under 7lbs with the scope on it. Very handy little gun. Same size/weight as my M94 Winchester - except my lever gun does not have a scope.

I almost never buy factory ammo, in fact I cannot remember the last time I did(maybe 10 years ago?), but in this case I figured why not buy some cheap Hornady Whitetail ammo to shoot/sight in with and then have the brass. I was amazed at the ease of getting the gun on target, and in less than 20 rounds I realized I had to extend my range out to 250 yards to see what it could do.

I say all of that to say it shoots VERY well with the Hornady factory stuff. I am averaging 2575 fps with the factory stuff, 10' from the barrel. Its right at MOA out to 250 yards(all I have to shoot at my house). So now that I have 50 rounds shot through it I figured I would start my reloading process for it. I could stick with factory ammo, but I love to reload/shoot way too much.

So, just thought I would share as I go. Hopefully the next guy coming along will be able to use some of it to help him along.

Which bullet is atop that Hornady load you've gotten such great results from? I have a new to me Tikka 7-08 that shot the American Whitetail load that utilizes the 139 gr Interlock and it also shot very well.

I've had exceptional results from Ramshot Big Game & 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, as well as from that powder with 150 gr Sierra Game Kings, both loads running close to max charges with newly resized Lake City 7.62 NATO cases and large rifle magnum primers.

Good luck w/ the project; 'tis a great cartridge!

Good stuff TTN. Welcom to the 'fire. I have 2 of the RAR's and they shoot great, like yours, and are not very fussy. Enjoy!

I guess I should include that I have started prepping cases and getting measurements. For starters I bought some Sierra 140 grain Pro Hunters. I bought Hornady dies, so I do have some 139 grain BTSP coming. I wish they would send out the flat bases as I hear most of the time flat bases are easier to get good accuracy up to around 300 yards. Plus, that is the bullet Hornady uses in their factory ammo which seems to shoot very well.

Seeing how I am going to limit myself to 300 yards on big game out west, and rarely have a shot over 200 yards here in Arkansas, I thought flat bases would be the way to go. But, maybe the boat tails will work out fine for me.

I did take a fired case, slightly size the neck, and stuck the Sierra bullet in it to get a OAL. I measured it quite a few times and always came up with the same number - 2.757". Sierra load data listed their OAL at 2.780", so I know I will have to start low and work up for sure. I will have to say that I was a bit perturbed when I called Sierra about this, trying to see if they had any idea of a correlation between my seating depth and how it will effect pressures. The guy on the phone, older gentleman, acted like I was a complete idiot and did not present his company in a very good light. I have had past dealings with them that were good, so I will write this one off as a grumpy old man day.

Needless to say, this gun has a very short throat/leade. I think the only reason why the Hornady ammo shot good was because their bullet secant ogive is significantly different than other bullets in the same weight class. I'll have to wait till I get some of their flat base bullets to see, but I bet I am not far off the lands with that factory ammo. I do remember some guys posting about how their Ruger Americans were hard to close the bolt on with other factory ammo. I have to wonder if it is not because of the short throat. Its definitely something you don't think about normally, but I can see how it would happen.

I am not 100% positive just yet, but I think that the chamber is on the small/tight end of the spectrum too. I use the Lee trimmer, which I found does not quite get the cases cut down to recommended length. It was cutting them down to 2.030", recommended being 2.025". Well, I tried to chamber one of these last night and the bolt was VERY hard to close. Actually, it did not want to close at all, and I would probably never shoot a round in a gun that I had to close the bolt so hard on.

I marked the end of the case mouth with a sharpie and it was smeared off when I took the case out. I am going to trim down the Lee trimmer pilot so that my cases are 2.025" and then see if the bolt sticks again. I could not see where it was hanging up anywhere else on the case though.

My desire would be to find a load with H4895 since I use that in a few other cartridges, and I have always wanted to find a powder I use a lot of to justify buying in bulk. But everything I hear is that H414/760 is tried and true. I can work around any temp issues it may have.

I'll for sure give updates as I go along. I'm sure I'll have some pictures too. Looks like rain all weekend, but if it breaks I'll get out and do some testing.

Interesting, especially that short throat and OAL deal. Keep us posted if you don't mind.

I suppose my last post will answer your question, but its their #2820. I actually caught one in some water jugs I put out at the 250 yard mark. I'll take a picture of it.

I've thought about using Big Game, but that would be just one more powder to add to the collection. I load for a .308 and a .243 also, so I might wind up using H4350 in the end. But with it being a 18" barrel I have a feeling it will have more of a muzzle blast with it versus the other two powders I use already.

I might eventually try 150 grain bullets in it, but for now I see it shoots very well with the 140's its hard to try something else. Plus, being on the light side of weight for a gun, I want to keep recoil to a minimum.

I thought so too. I like to have a shorter throat than longer, even though I know it limits my upper weight range. But the short OAL has me stumped. From what I can tell SAAMI spec is for a 2.035" case MAX. I would have thought they would at least cut it that long.

And, I may have interpreted my test wrong last night. I did not spend much time with it as it was just a passing test. I will know for sure when I take the same case I tried, and trim it down without doing anything else to it. If it functions fine then I known for sure its the OAL. But like I said, I am almost positive it is because the marker was worn off the face of the mouth which would really only be caused by it being forced against something hard.

Not saying your wrong at all, but I've loaded for 3-4 of our 7-08's and had to seat at max mag box length to get as close to lands as possible. Still wouldn't touch, but by max OAL is usually in the 2.805 range.

2575 fps from the factory ammo sounds quite slow.

For a 22" barrel, 2800 fps for a 140 is readily achieved, so shorter barrel should be in the 2700 fps range.

What bullet are you using? I suppose I could chamber cast the gun and get a exact picture of whats going on inside. But I am not concerned really. I just don't want to be shoving the bullet into the lands. Its a hunting gun, not target, so I want 100% reliability - with as much accuracy as possible.

Its "supposed" to be 2840 fps, that's what it says on the box, but I am guessing that's out of a 24"-26" gun. It is their most economical line of ammo.

I had a few rounds hit 2600 fps, but once you factor in the ones that only hit 2550 fps then you get a median of 2575 fps.

What you come up with is a 35-45 fps/inch loss. That's not too out of line I don't think. Not ideal. And who knows if it would not be 100 fps faster if I were shooting in warm weather. Could be the powder they are using. If its temp related then it could be closer to the 25-30 fps/inch loss mark.

I'm personally not hung up on speed though. Just want to make sure I know what it is so I can know what its doing down range. I figure I will be able to get better hand loading though.

Personally, I think its the weather/temp. I have heard they like to use ball powder in their ammo, and its notorious for temp sensitivities.

I knew I was going to be giving up speed from the get go. I struggled with it for a while, between getting the standard or compact. But in the end, knowing the ranges I am going to be shooting, the lighter weight/smaller package was the winner.

I can still kill paper out longer ranges though.

I am loading 120 BTs for my daughter's 7mm-08. It is a custom rifle, so the chamber was cut with the reamer that my gunsmith had at the time. I have to trim the cases to at least 2.035" to get more than two loadings without having to trim again.

Like JG, I load them as long as they will reliably feed through the magazine. With the 120 BT, COAL is 2.890". Length to the lands with this bullet is 2.930" I would like to be able to get a little closer, but accuracy is very good at the current COAL.

Turns out it was not a COL issue. I did not set the FL sizer down far enough I guess. Normally it's ok when you set it to just touch the shell holder, I had to crank it down another half turn to.

I did pull a factory round apart. 44 grains of a ball powder. I put it beside some H414 and it's similar, but darker. I know they probably use a proprietary powder, but at least I understand the velocity issue.

I did notice last time I shot the last round in a string I left it sitting in the chamber longer settling in on the target. That shot was noticeably higher than the others.

Regardless, I'll be putting together some test loads today and hope to get a break in the rain tomorrow.

Got to do some shooting this weekend. I started out with H414, then H4895, and ended up with H4350. I found some decent loads with the first two, but the velocity just was not there. This 18" barrel is biting me in the butt. I am not hung up on velocity, but I do want enough to make 300 yard shots effective. I just don't see how anything under 2500 fps is what I want. I know that I could kill with it, but at the same time I am not just going to settle for it without testing more.

I finally ended up with H4350. Wow, this powder was superb in my gun. I found a node that was giving me tight groups and 2575 fps average. But, wouldn't you know it, this powder is currently hiding from the public. I might have saved myself frustration if I had taken notice that the powder has been this way for some time now, but at the same time I might not have tried it and saw how nice it shot.

After doing some digging I came up with IMR4451 being the next "best" thing. I hope to load some up tonight and test tomorrow. Sure would be nice to find a load with it.

I have to say I am surprised though. Maybe I am not loading hot enough. I am being cautious with my loads, but I am getting a consistent ~200fps velocity difference than book data. I really hoped it would not be that low, and read a lot of guys with 18.5" barrels getting much better. Guess its just the nature of the beast.

Ok, so I have been doing some shooting. I was dumb and did not set up my chrony for the first round of tests, and then set it up too close for the next round. And, on top of that the first round of tests were done off bags, but not off my led sled I have - which I normally use to take as much of me out of the equation as possible.

So needless to say, I now have my head on straight and in the game.

I do have some pictures of some targets. One thing I am real curious about is what is causing some of my fliers. In the first round of tests I could blame them on me. But after using the lead sled it has to be something else. I meticulously weigh every charge, so I highly doubt that is it. Its not cold/clean barrel issue. Sometimes its the first shot in a string, sometimes second, and sometimes third.

Only thing I can figure is bullet runout? But will that cause such a difference in POI? I do not have a runout measuring tool yet, but I do look over each cartridge and there is not a huge runout issue going on.

I have gone through and weighed my brass. There is some difference in weight, its Hornady brass, but again how much is enough to cause significant fliers?

Would love to hear some thoughts. Here are the pictures.

My goal with reloading for this rifle is to get as close to the POI as the factory rounds are. I originally zeroed the scope for them, so I figure if I can get close to the same POI, with the same weight bullet, then I will be matching the trajectory close enough. Understanding differences in bullets do matter in the long run.

Regardless, the POI for the factory rounds is right around 1" at 100 yards. So thats what I am going for. In the third picture, which is where I tested the 4451 yesterday, I want to say the 46.5 grain is going to be pretty close to what I want. Except I don't know what to make of that flier.

The first picture is when I tested H414, and there is one that shows some promise there also.

There are other groups that are also showing promise, but the POI is just too low and the ones I did get velocity readings on showed them around 2400 fps. That would be fine for close up work, but I know the gun is capable of more than that.

I bet IMR4166 would go right along with that list.

I know a couple of things about short barreled 7mm-08

Nice looking rig. I'm intrigued now. XP100? What are the specs on it, and what kind of load tests would you share?

I have a smidgen of Varget I could try some loads with, but I hate to waste bullets without knowing what I might expect.

Have you ever tried the "slower" powders in your gun?

Hodgdon's online data has 7mm08 in the handgun section. There you can see what they got with a 15" barrel.

Savage Striker 14" barrel I've run both R15 and Varget through it with equally good results my load right now is
44gr R15 with 120gr BT...Varget was 44-45 gr also same bullet...Those are the only powders I've used in the gun as they work so well there was no need to try any others

I actually have looked at it. They only list Hodgdon powders interestingly enough.

Also, I run into almost the same issue as looking at data for the longer barrel stuff. The closest I can find is an old Hornady manual I have in where they used a model 7 with 18.5" barrel for their tests. However, they only have the old'n powders listed. It is interesting to see that their data max's out at 2600fps for the 139gr bullet.

Did you try any 139/140 grain bullets?

140 gr BT also shot well thats what I killed the antelope with

Just for example, their 47gr H4350 load I am getting 100fps more than they are.

Sorry for the long winded post. I got out and shot again yesterday. Moved the chrony out to 15'. I did not get to shoot much, and that might be a good thing to help me sit back and think about things. Hopefully it might add more information for others to see something.

I had loaded up 4 rounds the night before of what seemed to be the best shooting 4451 load. The first three shots were right there grouping 1/2", and then the next shot was way off in left field. It was not a pulled shot. I just don't know what to think. That load averages 2450fps. Which is very interesting because of the POI on the target. In the picture it is the bottom left.

Then I decided to try the H414 again, and get some velocity readings from it. I first tried the 46 grain load. Top left in picture. It grouped in ok I guess. Maybe I am being picky? I did not get an exact measurement, but its right around .8". Average velocity is 2535fps.

Then I decided to up it, and see if I pick up velocity and see how the group reacts. I shot 46.3(not 46.5 as the picture indicates). Lower right target. Definite POI shift and one of those dang fliers. Interestingly enough though, the average velocity of those were 2525fps. I would say this is a case of false readings, and it may be to an extent, but I did not notice ANY speed gain over the 46 grain load.

Here are the readings of the two.

46gr
2531
2547
2528

46.3gr
2527
2545
2505

So no major velocity differences, actually pretty close, and the POI shifted just about 1" to the left. Very interesting to me.

Last but not least, I said I would do it so I did. I tried a load of Varget. I chose to use 42 grains to start. I wish I could have shot more just to see, but I am not sure if I might not get frustrated by it. Reason being, the 42 grain load was the smallest in the bunch coming in at ~1/2". Top right target. However if you notice the POI it is low(compared to factory loads) and it only averaged 2413fps.

I had to quit at that point, it was getting dark anyways. I'll try some higher loads, who knows it may work, but if its like anything else I am thinking the groups will start to open up. Maybe I will prove myself wrong. I'm about out of bullets so I am going to have to decide what I want to pursue next if that does not work. What I did start to notice is that this Sierra bullet seems to want to run with a mild load. In fact, each powder I've tried - H414, H4895, IMR4451, H4350, and Varget - all have produced good groups with midway loading's(between start and max using Hodgdon data).

I don't see this as a complete surprise. I have for the most part seen most of the best groups, from various guns/cartridges, come from mid to upper mid loads. Never from minimum or from top end. I'm starting to believe that I am going to have to settle for what it is. I choose to go the shorter barrel route and this is part of the outcome from it. If only I had access to the powder that Hornady uses....

I know that 2500fps is not horrible, and really for the most part it will do just fine. But I bought the gun specifically to use for deer and the occasional elk hunt. I knew for deer it would be a great gun, and for elk it would be OK as long as I limited my shot distance. I had hoped to have that distance be 300 yards, but when doing calculations I really feel I need to be in the 2550fps range at the muzzle. Of course, those numbers I recorded yesterday were at 15' from the muzzle, so MAYBE they could have 20-25fps added to them.

I think I am going to get some of the Hornady's to start work with. Maybe my gun just does not like Sierra. I say that tongue and cheek because other than a few of those groups, years ago I would have been ecstatic to have a gun shoot like that and I would not think twice about hunting with it. Maybe its a bit of OCD or something. I just feel I can do better with it.

Thoughts?

Dunno how much experience you have so forgive me if I come across wrong. But I stopped with the 0.3 level of measuring after seeing it mattered very little and I ended up chasing fliers and other minutae.

In a case that size I start at whole grains and once I see a promising pattern develop I go up or down a half grain, or work on overall length. Not trying to shoot flies, and I end up with sub moa this way anyway.

Just for reference, the circles on the target are little less than 3/4" apart.

No worries, I am not easily offended. I don't have as much as some, but I've been at it for a while. 5 years or so maybe? I do not pretend to know it all, only what I have learned, which is why I am always open for other experience. I learned on my own, not taught by anyone, just always trying different things to see what works. What I have learned is that hand loading has a WIDE range of traditions, habits, and opinions. Which I understand completely.

My personal experience is that I have seen .3 difference matter when I get around a load that works good. My standard is to load in .5 grain increments and then fine tune with .3.

I don't do the 1 grain steps in this size cartridge just because with some powders that would mean only two loads before I am either below start or over max.

I did have one thought cross my mind. Is it possible a heavier bullet would be more efficient in this scenario?

My thoughts on it are it would be harder to push down the barrel, so that means slower, but at the same time giving the powder more "time" to work on it.

I will state that I am not a believer in faster powder/short barrel theory(to a point). I do firmly believe that powder burns in the first 16 or so inches of a barrel.

Going back over my notes and pictures, I did not fully explore H4895 like I should have. I was using the Hodgdon 140 grain data before I had found out that I can use the 139 grain data.

Whats significant about that is the 140 grain data tops out just over the start data for the 139. So I could have gone a lot further in my tests, plus the top load(40.5) did show some promise.

I found that the .3 loads might look good but were more a statistical anomaly. Shoot thst load for a group 5 more times and see if it still holds up. As you posted, adding .3 resulted in slower speeds and not even one pct difference in speeds, kind of erratic.

My thought was actually that the 46 grain load had reached the maximum velocity/pressure that was accurate. That was the purpose of going over .3, just to see how much it effected things, and from what I saw it did.

I'll agree, for most work .3gr is not going to amount to much. But in reality it does effect things. Maybe I am trying to squeeze the loads too much in an effort to get the best one, but I'm one of those guys that if I think about something without doing it then it haunts me until I do it.

I have worked up loads before that shot great, then changed the seating depth or something else only to find out the load did not shoot like it did before. Changing it just a few tenths of a grain brought things back together.

Maybe its dumb luck, or just pure happenstance, but I still stick with it. Just not for first time group testing. That I only do in .5 increments.

Every gun is an individual. Whatever works for you

Well I think I have figured it out. I think its me not being consistent while shooting. I thought that if I put my gun on the led sled it would take me out of the equation. But after thinking about it, unless I put the rest in the same position, and the gun in the same position, even the little bit of cheek weld and torque on the grip I have can effect the way the gun behaves shot to shot.

I guess I just assumed it would be so little of an effect that I did not have to be consistent with those things. I just did not take into effect that as soon as the trigger is pulled there are reactions going on and that its not all happening after the bullet leaves the barrel.

Makes complete sense why smaller caliber, lighter recoiling, rounds are more consistent. Lesson learned.

I have some Hornady 139grain flat bases coming next week so hopefully I can put all my lessons to good use.

I thought about it, and decided to take your advice. Got home and loaded up 3 with 47 grains of H414 because I wanted to see what the velocity increase might be and just what it might do on paper. Shot those three and they printed right at 1/2". Got excited, loaded 2 more to make a 5 shot group, and the fourth printed in the middle of the others, but the 5th opened it up to just over 1". I am not complaining needless to say.

Loaded up 5 more and shot at 200 yards. Again, just over 2" with a flier opening it up to over 2.5"

Nice thing about it is they are hitting same POI as the hornady factory loads, and I am measuring just over 2600 fps average.

Too bad it took me the whole box of bullets to finally find this. Oh well, lesson learned. I will have to say that half my battle was the darn rest I think. Note to those using them, you still have to have consistent hold on the rifle and consistently put it in the rest the same way. Have to wonder what the other loads might have been like now.

I think that some fine tuning of the OAL will bring me even tighter. But I have reached my goal. Now I get to start all over with the other bullets next week.....

I'll stick with H414 though. I was not seeing any muzzle blast like I was before with other powders. I rarely do any shooting in hot weather so I am not concerned with temp sensitivity. Some more practice and I'll be good to go with this gun.

Have to stretch it out further now and see what it can do. I wish I had thought to contact Hodgdon in the beginning to see what data I should use. I was originally going off their 140 grain data for H414 which max is way under 47 grains. No pressure signs at all with my load.

I'll keep things updated when I develop the load with the new bullets.

Hard to know on a 5 shot group if you were losing concentration or if the load is inconsistent...I struggle with that too. Another thing I do is test loads at 50 yards to try to take wind and my skills out of the equation. Then move to 100 to verify once you find a good one.

Do you find 50 yards is far enough? I would think at that distance, unless something is way off, most loads are going to be tight.

I'm not opposed to it, just never considered it.

If wind isn't an issue I prefer 200 yards.

I'm intrigued really. I've been looking at it objectively. I guess if you tested at 50, and had all holes touching, then you could say that it would be good further out. But technically, 1 MOA is like 1/2" at 50 Seems you would have to be very particular in your measurements.

Yes but what I am looking for are the "don't bother" type ones that are way off. Then when I have a couple that do end up at a half inch I move to 100

IF I had any question regarding 7-8 id ask pharmseller..Or first do some search on his previous posts.

Find some Big Game powder.

Put 47.5 grains in a case with a Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primer.

Seat a 140 Partition at 2.805"

Report back.









P

Not sure which Lee trimmer you are talking about, but if it is the one where the pilot screws into the cutter, make sure it is screwed all the way in. I have had that problem with some. The threads get real tight right before it goes all the way in. miles

Thats what I would love to see on my targets for sure. But I am 100% sure that if I set a Partition at 2.805" I might not even get the bolt closed on my gun.

I've heard good things about Big Game in this cartridge. Enough so that I would definitely think about experimenting one day. For now I'm gonna have to stick with H414 as it shows too much promise.

pharmseller, is that a standard size RAR or compact?

Yes, that's the one. I thought that might be the case at first, because normally I find Lee trimmers to actually cut further than recommended. I went ahead and filed off a tad and now I am getting the 2.025" cut recommended. I will say, the metal is soft so if someone was to try this they want to go slow. A few thous is not much with a file.

Standard RAR, not compact.

2.800" is SAAMI spec, why would .005" prevent a bolt close?




P

Same load in a Tikka





Same load in another Tikka





Big Game is the bee's knees.





P

I am assuming. I could be completely wrong. I look at the partitions and they do not look much different shape wise than the Sierra pro hunters. I could not get the Sierras out past 2.757" without jamming in the lands.

One of these days I'll learn how to insert images into the main body and not as an attachment. Until then, this is the target from the other day. First three shots were the ones strung next to each other. Then, I went back and loaded two more in order to see what a 5 shot group would be like. Anyways, its a good start I think.

On a side note. I emailed Hornady last week about their 139 grain interlock, just to see what their recommended minimum velocity is for it. I expected to hear somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800-2000, but they came back with 2300 fps. That seems very high to me. I can't argue with them over it, but it just doesn't seem right for some reason.

The best load I find for my finicky 7mm-08 Forbes is 120 gr Barnes TTxs with 47 gr H380 at a little over 3000 fps.Kills both Elk and deer excellent and never had a bullet stay in game. Fast becoming my favorite rifle and caliber.

When you asked for "recommended minimum velocity" did you or they specify minimum muzzle velocity or minimum impact velocity?

I actually asked for minimum impact velocity or minimum impact ft lbs. I did that because I contacted a speer technician last week who said they go off minimum impact ft lbs based on animal size(I was asking about deer and elk hunting).

I'm guessing they probably read it wrong also, so I did reply back to their reply. Hopefully I will get another reply.

I've got another question. I went into Cabelas the other day and looked through all their reloading books.

There is a bunch of different data all for the Hornady 139 grain bullet and H414.

Lymans manual lists a MAX charge of 47.6

Hornady lists a MAX charge of 49.9

Hodgdon lists a MAX charge of 47


I know they all test under different conditions, rifles, and such. But that is a very big spread.

I have never worked any load, in any gun, to showing pressure signs. I have loaded at MAX and beyond on a few different occasions, but only just to see how the groups were reacting. Has anyone noticed that this particular bullet shoots best pushed real hard? It seemed to be that way for the Sierra I was working with.

Did you notice that for whatever reason the Hodgdon data tops out at only 44,100 CUP?

Hey Pharmseller,

I have been digging to see just how many people test their loads at 50 yards. I ran across an old thread you started almost 7 years ago. Did/do you use 50 yards as rough cut for load development?

I'd be real curious to see peoples pictures of 50 yard vs 100 yard. I am just about convinced to set up a 50 yard target and try to line it up with my 100 yard board. A shoot through type setup just to see.

I can totally see where at 50 yards it takes a lot of aiming issues out.

I did actually. The Lyman manual lists their MAX load at 46,100 CUP. So at least its a linear progression.

I figure that Hodgdon might use such a low weight because of Summer/Winter temp swings? Error on the side of caution?

Too bad Hornady doesn't list what their pressure is at 49.9.

2 things:

A. Minimum impact velocity.
Nosler recommends 1800 fps as their minimum impact velocity for adequate expansion. The buck I killed last year with the Partition load got hit by the bullet at about 1950 fps. Destroyed the lungs, broke the off shoulder, and exited. 541 lasered yards, DRT. A spike bull I killed the year before with the same combo took a single bullet at 346 yards, probably close to 2300 fps. Quartering away, broke a rib on the right going in, exited in front of the left shoulder. Dropped like a rock.


2. Whatever 50 yard shooting I did was just to get on paper with a new scope.

Go to shooter's pro shop dot com for half price factory seconds. They're all I shoot.





P

Got an email back from Hornady. Sure enough, they recommend starting the 7mm 139 grain Interlock at 2300, with minimum impact velocity of 1800.

I went back and looked at my email. I can see how they might have interpreted it the wrong way. Good lesson to be thorough in asking for information.

I got the Hornady's in the other day and had a few hours to play with them last night. I went ahead and started with 47gr of H414 and played with OAL instead. I found that the Hornady's have a significant ogive difference than the Sierra's, and when touching the lands the OAL was 2.835".

That was kind of interesting to me, because Hornady's factory ammo I have measures 2.760" on average. Which means, on average, the factory ammo jumps ~.075". It was shooting around an inch for me pretty consistently.

I started with a .020" jump and shot a decent group but it was 3/4" left POA. Then I decided to play with OAL. Loaded 3 more .005"(.015" off lands) longer and only shot two before I realized longer was not the ticket. Then I loaded .025" off the lands and got a good group, same size as the first, but almost an inch lower than the first. And on top of that I recorded a velocity increase of 50fps.

Next load was .030" off, opening up some. And next .035", which opened the group more. Very interesting experiment for sure.



So I got a question. I'm sure with more testing I'll see a pattern or something, but maybe someone already has seen a correlation.

I have the rifle zeroed 1" high at 100 yards right now with the factory ammo. It is the same bullet I am using, 139 grain flat bases. They were average 2575fps. *On a side note this was back when I was recording 10' from the muzzle instead of my 15' so I am not sure if those numbers would be any different now, ie. if muzzle blast was effecting the previous readings.

I also found a load with the Sierras that also group around 1" high. They have a little faster velocity though, around 2600fps average.

Now I find that with the 139gr Hornady's I am loading I am getting over 2600fps average, but they are grouping almost 1 1/2" low.

I realize that different loads come out of the barrel different ways. And the reason is different powder/bullet/OAL combinations, but has anyone seen this and found something out about it?

I did not have time to test out farther, I plan too on Friday. I'll just be curious how they do at 150-200 yards. The factory ammo was doing real good at 200 yards. The Sierra's were a little more open/scattered. I do have to say that I am not going to try and chase clover leafs though. I do not doubt that they are possible, but I am fine with 1" at 100yards if I can see that the load will consistently hit in that same area - as long as the longer range also proves to be decent of course.

It is a hunting rifle after all and I have zero intention of ever shooting competitions with it. I just want to feel confident in the shots I take on game and know that if I miss it was because of me and not the rifle/load.

Completely forgot to add the picture of the target. I did not do so well in my picture angle, sorry.

I'm tempted to seat down to factory OAL just to see what happens. Would be interesting to see. Guess it cannot hurt?

Think I just answered my own question. lol

This article deals with temps effecting velocity, but what I was experiencing last night was just a velocity change. I guess that 50fps, or more, change was the cause of the drop. Makes me even more curious how it will fair at longer range.

POI change

You can't necessarily attribute different points of impact to velocity differences when other things are in play. You even said it yourself, something along the lines of different loads come out of the barrel in different ways.

True, but I think the best explanation would be velocity change. As in, it was leaving the barrel sooner than other loads, and therefore happened to be leaving before the upswing(if you will excuse my crude term) of the barrel.

I believe it happens on the opposite side of the spectrum too though. As in, if you reached another velocity node that was on the same node as the other rounds your POI would be higher. But I'm next to positive its all on barrel timing.

What will be interesting to see is how it reacts at longer ranges. I'm sure people have done studies of this, but I have no clue how to search for something like that on the internet.

If you notice as I seated deeper the group center started to move back up. I wish I would have had good enough light to record the velocities on the Chrony as this was happening.

I'd load some more at the .020 jump with the 47 grain load and shoot a few groups to see if the accuracy is repeatable. If it is play with the powder charge and try to tighten it up.

I spent some time with the gun this weekend. I started by loading some more up with the 47 grains and .025" off. I liked how that group was centered more, and it was the same size as the other.

I was still shooting the same at 100 yards, so I stretched it on out to 200. It seemed alright I suppose. I still get these darn random fliers. But the bulk of the group seems tight. 3" group is "ok" for hunting at 200 yards.

First 5 shot group the 250 yard plate was around 5", strung horizontally, with one low. Again, not what I had hoped for, and I was scratching my head if it was me or the load. So I took a bit to think and decided to try a different load, to see if it would change things.

I upped the charge to 47.3 grains and shot a nice 7/8" group at 100 yards. No way of actually knowing if that was because of the load change, or just a better day shooting for me. But I tried it at 250 yards again. First three shots were 2 1/2", strung horizontally just about.

Then the next two opened it up, so I decided to load 4 more and see what a total of 9 shots produced. Yes, I am weird like that. I like to work in even numbers sometimes and that left me with 10 prepped cases to shoot. Anyways, the 9 shot group did open my eyes some.

6 of the 9 are clustered in a 3" group. One way left, and 2 way low. So honestly, I think that the outliers are my shooting skill not the load. Is that a pretty fair assessment? I can see where large group sizes are beneficial for seeing things like this.

I'm gonna call it good and work on my shooting skill now. One thing also is that these are factory second bullets. I went through them, weighed and measured them, they seem fine except some blemishes. But who knows how they are on the inside. Regardless, I am not going to say they were the cause. But next time, after some more practice, I'll repeat my test with some factory firsts.

I am not sure the velocity of the new 47.3 grain load. I'll run them over the chronograph soon. One thing that might be an issue was the cross winds I was dealing with. I try not to put blame on any one thing, but running some numbers it does seem that at 250 yards wind can play with POI. Next time I do a serious test I'll make sure its a calm day.

I realized I never have got a picture of the gun, so I decided to take one this weekend also. Nice little gun really. Definitely not a bench rest gun. I think half my issues is how light it is. Sure does like to jump when shot. But It will be perfect in the tree stand, walking around the woods, or packing in the mountains out west. I'll just have to limit my shots.

I'd not rule out the barrel making contact with the stock as the cause of the fliers.

As in during recoil it makes contact?

I know for sure it is floating up to the chamber just sitting there. It was one of the first things I did when I got the gun to make sure there was a very generous gap - not just a dollar bill sized one.

I honestly think its a combination of a few things. Trigger and rest being the biggest problem. The trigger is not horrible, but I do find it not breaking as easy as I would like it. My M700 is about the best trigger I have ever personally had. I'm gonna work on the Ruger's tonight.

I think the rest is the other culprit. I've been doing some reading, and it seems common place to hear of people having issues tightening groups with a solid "lead sled" type rest. Its superb for steady holding, which is why I got it - not because of recoil - but I think it does not allow it to recoil naturally.

I have tried to put it back into the holder the same after each shot, but who knows if something is a little different each time. I'm gonna break out the bags to do the rest of my testing.

Yes during recoil. I guess Ruger has stiffened the American stocks up some I haven't looked at the newer ones but the early ones were very flexible.

I suppose the stock could contact if enough force was applied, but it is pretty stiff. The solid rest I had it in for testing my have combined with it to cause the issues. I will say that if I were going to try and make this a target/bench gun I would do away with the synthetic stock very quickly. In fact, I have decided that I am going to get another RAR(full size) and use it as a base for adding stock and such too for target/bench type shooting. I think for a production gun they have a lot of potential.

I did work on the trigger yesterday. I started with removing the spring and putting a ball point pen spring in its place. It worked very well, but I could not get over the fact I put a pen spring in it so I dug through an old box of gun parts and found a good spring to use. The trigger pull is wonderful now. Very light(I have no scale), still safe, but allows you to be surprised. I thought about adding the "no creep" set screw in it, but for a hunting rifle this will do.

I put it on bags to shoot and was very pleased. I did find something very interesting which leads me to believe that most all of my fliers are caused by me. I started shooting at 150 yards and printed two right next to each other. However, I had to go reset my plate because it went crooked on the second shot. After shooting the third it fell off completely, and when I went back to look/put it on, the third shot was 1 1/2" left of the other two.

Then I shot the 250 yard plate. Fired three at it, and decided to go look. All in a nice group, 2 1/2" wide. Went back to shoot three more and they opened up the group with one wide left and one straight down. What this made me realize is that each time I got up, shifted my gun around, changed my seating and such is when the rest of the shots did not go into the main group.

I'm convinced that I have not found a solid anchor point yet, or a repeatable hold on the gun. I think that because it is such a light weight gun, and variance is causing the POI to shift. So its just a matter of working on this. I hope to shoot more tonight so I can put this into practice, but at this point I am convinced the load is great and I might should just move on to field shooting positions. It just one of those things that you want to have a target with a nice little group to show is all.

Well its a done deal I do believe. I got home yesterday and loaded up some rounds and setup on bags following the suggestions I read on this site light weight rifle shooting

I was blow away at the groups I got. Sub MOA all the way out to 250 yards. I still got the occasional flier, but I called each one. I knew if I was putting too much pressure, or squeezing off a round at the wrong time. The trigger on this thing is amazing and is something I am going to have to get used to all over again. I guess even though its not a real hard kicking caliber, the gun is light enough to cause inconsistencies that I have never seen in my other heavier guns.

Now it makes me wonder just how much I can tighten the groups, on other guns I have, by using proper shooting form. I am not a competition shooter, so I never cared that much about learning such stuff. Your hard pressed to use proper shooting form from a number of different hunting situations. But it does help to know these things when you go to testing loads, so you don't waste time and money.

I don't always shoot off the solid rest, I use bags and other field positions, but when I do use the rest I had always thought it was the best for testing accuracy. Now I understand the only real benefit to it is you don't have to deal with recoil on your shoulder. I am just not sure if that's worth more than the frustration of the negatives.

You are way over thinking things load some bullets and go shoot stuff

Guess you didn't read through it all, or you did and were confused?

I'm not over thinking things, just thinking through things out loud. Posting it all for future reference and for those who may be like me and run into some of the same things.

Just trying to be helpful. Anyone can just load bullets and "shoot stuff"........

or you can mull over minutiae and drive yourself to drink
If you aren't shooting competitively its really moot

Not really. Others might, but I wont. I like to think about things. I suppose some guys settle for the unknown, but I like to know why things happen.

I might agree with you if I only planned on taking shots at animals up to and around 100-150 yards. The fliers were not that bad at that distance. But further out I like to be responsible about shooting at game. As I said before, I plan to take shots up to 300 yards and I want better results than I was getting at 250 yards.

However, what it all boils down to is the load development process. If I had read or heard about how light weight rifles react in solid gun rests to begin with, I might not have used up so much of my components looking for a good load. Instead I would have been shooting stuff.

So, along with the other articles/threads/posts about others experiences with the same issue, I can add my experience for others to read. As I stated from the beginning, I like to try and give back/be helpful to those people and places I found help from myself. That is the main reason for posting so much detail.

There are enough threads with people coming in and bragging about things, or just coming in and asking questions. Not that they don't have a right or others don't want to read them - I just wanted to be different.

So I might not be shooting competition with this gun, but I gained a tremendous amount of insight from this experience to help me out if/when I do get a bench gun and potentially shoot competition.

ok as long as you are having fun

For sure I am. I always enjoy reaching a goal. I was not having fun when I couldn't explain the fliers, which made the recent discovery all the more exciting.

Try IMR 4320 with a 140 gr bullet I get 2691 fps in a 18.5 in barrel.Plus it shoots good.

PS, I've never used Ramshot before, so was unaware BG was a ball powder. Given that the standard WLR was supposedly designed for the ball powders Winchester uses in their factory ammo, I'm curious why you opt for a WLRM. Just added security against a hangfire?

Mule Deer (aka John Barsness) suggested it. And it works. Probably not necessary. I get 80 to 100 fps increase over CCI 200.






P

I actually almost tried this powder. I have some on hand because I tried it in my 30-30 and did not like it. Then I found a really nice load for my sons 308 using it.

But I just do not see how the load I found with H414 is gonna be beat. Its holding super tight for the gun I am shooting. I think striving for half MOA is gonna be an exercise in frustration.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but I am using S&B large rifle primers with this load. I have had really good luck with them in other guns so I decided to try them in this one. I think they are igniting the H414 quite well.

Same here but with a 140 tsx!! No chronograph but per reloading manual should be near 2900. Got an elk hunt planned this October and hope to find a different powder, since H-380 is so temp sensitive.

Have you tried Varget, H4350, or Big Game?