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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,780 Likes: 3 |
Not totally sure how I feel about this, overall I think I'm in favor of it. The ATF has really too much become the anti-2A agency to many in the ranks, even the "honored" Agent Dodson who was whistleblower for Fast & Furious testified to Congress on the desperate need for federal gun owner databases so that federal agents could stop by for a "talk" with people who were buying more guns than the agents thought appropriate. At this point I think armed federal agents should be restricted pretty much to only the FBI, US Marshals, Secret Service and the Border Patrol. Goodness knows the FBI doesn't have clean hands, but a lot of what they get away with is because they can point the finger at ATF for starting the problem. Let the FBI investigate crimes, let Treasury or somebody handle FFL paperwork and inspections. http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398088WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner reintroduced the ATF Elimination Act, legislation that would dissolve the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and merge its exclusive duties into existing federal agencies.
Additionally, the Act calls for an immediate hiring freeze at the agency and requires the Department of Justice (DOJ) to eliminate and reduce duplicative functions and waste, as well as report to Congress with a detailed plan on how the transition will take place. Further, it would transfer enforcement of firearms, explosives and arson laws to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and illegal diversion of alcohol and tobacco products would be transferred to the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA).
Under this bill, the DEA and FBI would be required to submit to Congress a plan for winding down the affairs of the ATF after no more than 180 days, and field offices, along with other buildings and assets of the ATF, would be transferred to the FBI. It would have one year to report excess property to the General Services Administration (GSA).
Last edited by Calhoun; 01/17/17.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It and a whole lot of other alphabet agencies need to go away
There will be gnashing of teeth by liberals but you'd best be ready for that if you want to see freedom and our Constitution adhered to in a meaningful way.
Everyone wants to believe the fight ended on the night of election
Au contraire, the fight is just now beginning
PS. Trump needs to quit tweeting and lashing out at the ankle biters
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A consolidation of power, could be one interpretation.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,780 Likes: 3 |
A consolidation of power, could be one interpretation. That's the argument I've heard against it. "Better the devil you know" and "ATF is smaller and easier to keep an eye on". But ATF also has only one real purpose, and that's guns. Both ATF and the FBI are under the DOJ, so keeping them separate just ensures there is an entire hierarchy of career Feds who are concentrating solely on guns and don't care about scandals because there is no downside to scandals in the ATF. Moving it to the FBI means that it becomes a small part of what the FBI does and to a large degree can be decentralized rather than having an entire agency trying to figure out how to ban ball ammo that's been in use for decades or deciding that a shoestring is a machinegun.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Trump says he'll cut government by 20%. If consolidation gets that done, I say full speed ahead. 20% reduction in funding and personnel neuters em.
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I approve wholeheartedly. Get rid of the DEA while they're at it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Id like the representation to be more direct and limited by how they conduct themselves, else face a job change..
Filling numerous bureacracies to do what Congress has defaulted on wasnt Constitutional to begin with; it simply made government intrusion grow and illegal enterprise grow with it.
What was local cancer merely has been disbursed with money laundered and stolen from the very people it was supposed to protect. The fuggin mafia aint got [bleep] on the Fed.....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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...even the "honored" Agent Dodson who was whistleblower for Fast & Furious testified to Congress on the desperate need for federal gun owner databases so that federal agents could stop by for a "talk" with people who were buying more guns than the agents thought appropriate. I hope the ATF is completely done away with, along with *any* agents who have this attitude. I don't give a rip what those dickheads think is "appropriate". There's no law that says a citizen can 'only' own so many guns. And even if there were...stupid laws deserve to be broken.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Most gun laws are unconstitutional. Get rid of the unconstitutional laws and there's no need for the ATF.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd support disbanding the ATF
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Regular
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Down with bureaucracies and those living the high life on the public teat...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Do away with the whole illegal 1968 GCA and the ATF becomes unneeded. No need for consolidation of something with no purpose anyway.
Get rid of Homeland Security too. Pull out of the United Nations. Both are akin to shooting your own dick.
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Campfire Tracker
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Anytime we can have less, smaller, Government it should be embraced by everyone.
And, the remaining Government, should be privatized as much as possible.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Campfire Ranger
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Make em border patrol agents. That way they can find the F/F guns they let go south.
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
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More border agents, stop those foreigners from taking jobs
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Campfire Ranger
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How many months has the ATF been without leadership?
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Campfire Tracker
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desperate need for federal gun owner databases so that federal agents could stop by for a "talk" with people who were buying more guns than the agents thought appropriate.
How the hell does the ATF get to decide how many guns are appropriate for someone to have?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It was introduced about 2 years ago. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1329Hope it gets some serious consideration and perhaps some updated support this time.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd say the odds are 99.9-1 against..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Since ATF agents are so good at staking paperwork....they can use that skill staking bricks and build the wall on are southern border......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd say the odds are 99.9-1 against.. I think you are right. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Gotta have a huge, powerful regulatory enforcement agency to keep those evil things like suppressors out of the hands of the public. They are the government. They are here to help. Themselves.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'd support disbanding the ATF
Me too..
Speak softly and use a big bore...
Where's El Cid when we need him...
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Most gun laws are unconstitutional. Get rid of the unconstitutional laws and there's no need for the ATF. Yep.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Do away with the whole illegal 1968 GCA and the ATF becomes unneeded. No need for consolidation of something with no purpose anyway.
Get rid of Homeland Security too. Pull out of the United Nations. Both are akin to shooting your own dick. This.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Since ATF agents are so good at staking paperwork....they can use that skill staking bricks and build the wall on are southern border...... Stacking??
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Most gun laws are unconstitutional. Get rid of the unconstitutional laws and there's no need for the ATF. Yep. That's exactly what it boils down to.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't know enough about what the ATF does to say. I can say the 4473 and all the associated stuff could be done away with by simply having a +/- mark on a driver's license regarding if someone is good to go. If a change in there status they have to renew the driver's license immediately.
The FFL would only need to look at it and verify that is the person. No more calling things in, record keeping, etc.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't know enough about what the ATF does to say. I can say the 4473 and all the associated stuff could be done away with by simply having a +/- mark on a driver's license regarding if someone is good to go. If a change in there status they have to renew the driver's license immediately.
The FFL would only need to look at it and verify that is the person. No more calling things in, record keeping, etc. If someone is considered "safe" enough to be walking the streets free, then that is all that is needed. If they aren't, then they need a .22lr behind the ear, or to be incarcerated.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't know enough about what the ATF does to say. I can say the 4473 and all the associated stuff could be done away with by simply having a +/- mark on a driver's license regarding if someone is good to go. If a change in there status they have to renew the driver's license immediately.
The FFL would only need to look at it and verify that is the person. No more calling things in, record keeping, etc. It's really amazing,...mention Fast and Furious these days, and folks think you're talking about a hollyweird action / car chase flick. .....sad. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't know enough about what the ATF does to say. I can say the 4473 and all the associated stuff could be done away with by simply having a +/- mark on a driver's license regarding if someone is good to go. If a change in there status they have to renew the driver's license immediately.
The FFL would only need to look at it and verify that is the person. No more calling things in, record keeping, etc. It's really amazing,...mention Fast and Furious these days, and folks think you're talking about a hollyweird action / car chase flick. .....sad. GTC I'm not familiar with all the inner workings or much they do related to alcohol or tobacco...maybe they do a lot, I don't know. I am familiar with some of the screwups they've been a part of...but I don't know everything they are involved in.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm not familiar with all the inner workings or much they do related to alcohol or tobacco...maybe they do a lot, I don't know. I am familiar with some of the screwups they've been a part of...but I don't know everything they are involved in.
In short, they make sure the government gets their cut of the money. That's what it's about. Period.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,780 Likes: 3 |
It's really amazing,...mention Fast and Furious these days, and folks think you're talking about a hollyweird action / car chase flick.
.....sad.
GTC What do you think the body count is up to nowadays? I'd guess north of 2000 for sure, possibly much higher.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I don't know enough about what the ATF does to say. I can say the 4473 and all the associated stuff could be done away with by simply having a +/- mark on a driver's license regarding if someone is good to go. If a change in there status they have to renew the driver's license immediately.
The FFL would only need to look at it and verify that is the person. No more calling things in, record keeping, etc. That would be insufficiently inconvenient to the purchaser.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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If someone is considered "safe" enough to be walking the streets free, then that is all that is needed.
If they aren't, then they need a .22lr behind the ear, or to be incarcerated.
This.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If they get rid of the ATF there will be a whole lot of college educated women and Mexicans that won't be able to bully white men around.
I remember one audit at my shop that was performed by a couple of chicks. My buddy was in the Marine Corps and was on the hunt for some split tail. This one ATF chick came in the second day of her "audit" and my buddy made some pretty funny comments to her and then asked her out. She politely declined because she claimed she had a boyfriend but that didn't deter him. He followed her around and hounded the chit out of her. It was the shortest audit in history and we passed with flying colors.
Coincidentally she was telling us that the first 2 work hours of every day was spent at the gym because she got paid to workout and her gym membership was paid by the ATF. He kept asking her if he could work her out for 2 hours, she was blushing and politely declined. It was pretty fugging funny to see such an empowered bitch reduced to her basic self.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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On another note. I got a call from the ATF in Virginia this passed summer, several calls actually, I ignored them. Finally a couple of months ago I realized they weren't going to give up so I called them back. They asked where the complete gun log was for the shop that I closed down 4 years ago. I had printed it out and sent it back to Quantico along with the 4473's the day we closed down. He asked if I could print out another one and I told him nope, the computer is gone. I asked him if this is so important why are they so careless with in their job? He said that this happened a lot (lost records in their possession) I laughed out loud and told him I expected nothing less from a US agency that arms the drug cartels. He mumbled something and I told him my business with the ATF was completed 4 years and to quit calling me as I WILL NOT respond any further. That was the last I heard from that useless group of fu.cksticks, thankfully.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Regular
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Yes. The problem with any special purpose agency is that they will expand upon and compound their mission to gain more influence, more money, more staff, more "importance".
What's really funny is how they show up to so may fires and mundane explosions. If some sort of industrial process explodes it is a stretch to think that it involved "explosives" in the sense of the ATF's mission.
National Rifle Association - Patron Member
National Muzzleloading Rifle Association - Life Member and 1 of 1000
Illinois State Rifle Association - Life Member
Carlinville Rifle & Pistol Club
~ Molɔ̀ːn Labé ~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Most gun laws are unconstitutional. Get rid of the unconstitutional laws and there's no need for the ATF. Nailed it.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Campfire Outfitter
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Symbolic. Never intended to pass. .Gov never voluntarily gives up power over the masses.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd say the odds are 99.9-1 against.. Pretty good estimate, bill is going nowhere.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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On another note. I got a call from the ATF in Virginia this passed summer, several calls actually, I ignored them. Finally a couple of months ago I realized they weren't going to give up so I called them back. They asked where the complete gun log was for the shop that I closed down 4 years ago. I had printed it out and sent it back to Quantico along with the 4473's the day we closed down. He asked if I could print out another one and I told him nope, the computer is gone. I asked him if this is so important why are they so careless with in their job? He said that this happened a lot (lost records in their possession) I laughed out loud and told him I expected nothing less from a US agency that arms the drug cartels. He mumbled something and I told him my business with the ATF was completed 4 years and to quit calling me as I WILL NOT respond any further. That was the last I heard from that useless group of fu.cksticks, thankfully. Correct me if wrong but aren't all firearms transaction records of an FFl required to be kept in perpetuity? If not, for how long must such records be maintained? mike r
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Campfire Outfitter
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no sent in when surrendering the ffl
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The last time there was talk of disbanding the ATF they attacked a religious group near Waco and murdered them all (men, women and children) to prove how they could kick ass.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,780 Likes: 3 |
The last time there was talk of disbanding the ATF they attacked a religious group near Waco and murdered them all (men, women and children) to prove how they could kick ass. Actually, the FBI did the killing. Try again?
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Correct me if wrong but aren't all firearms transaction records of an FFl required to be kept in perpetuity? If not, for how long must such records be maintained?
FFL's gotta keep em' for 20 years. If ya' cease to do business prior to that, ya' gotta send em' in to the ATF.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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On another note. I got a call from the ATF in Virginia this passed summer, several calls actually, I ignored them. Finally a couple of months ago I realized they weren't going to give up so I called them back. They asked where the complete gun log was for the shop that I closed down 4 years ago. I had printed it out and sent it back to Quantico along with the 4473's the day we closed down. He asked if I could print out another one and I told him nope, the computer is gone. I asked him if this is so important why are they so careless with in their job? He said that this happened a lot (lost records in their possession) I laughed out loud and told him I expected nothing less from a US agency that arms the drug cartels. He mumbled something and I told him my business with the ATF was completed 4 years and to quit calling me as I WILL NOT respond any further. That was the last I heard from that useless group of fu.cksticks, thankfully. Of course if you had given any excuses about record keeping while you were still a going concern they would have nailed your hide to a tree.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Doing away with the ATF would be one of the best thing to happen for this country in the last 100 years
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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The last time there was talk of disbanding the ATF they attacked a religious group near Waco and murdered them all (men, women and children) to prove how they could kick ass. Yep. I remember it well.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Less government?
It has my support and backing!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If the Heller decision did nothing else, it did this:
Individual citizens have the right to bear arms in part to restrain the hand of government.
That right implies at the absolute minimum some sort of unfettered equivalency in the right to arms. This does not in any way shape or form imply ANY restriction whatsoever on ANY law abiding citizen and in fact the government knowing who among the citizens may be armed is a very substantial infringement on the right. It is tantamount to requiring the government to publish what arms it holds, where it holds them and who has access to them.
Alcohol and tobacco of course have no equivalent to the second amendment, and like pharmaceuticals are subject to government regulation.
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