Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Polycarbonate tips melt in flight?

This topic came up in a discussion elsewhere today. I'm curious about your thoughts. Hornady says they melt downrange. http://www.hornady.com/store/ELD-X My personal experience collection ballistic tips from the entrance side of wound channels and various target media disagrees with this to a degree. What say you?

Supposedly the tip is different on the ELD bullets and they don't melt. There is some talk about the older style plastic tips melting. But I've not seen anything to confirm that.

IIRC Hornady was getting down range speed data from their older plastic tipped bullets that didn't match the numbers they expected. The "theory" was that the plastic tips were melting and changing the bullets BC's after they left the muzzle. I don't know that they ever proved that, but it was the best explanation they could come up with. They changed the plastic tips on the ELD's to correct this.

At least that is my understanding. I could be wrong.

I doubt you could detect the level of deformation they claim occurs by looking at a bullet you just pumped into an ungulate.



Dave

I've found the green tips from Balistic Tips in the backstop.

Melting depends on muzzle velocity.

The race cars may have to worry. Under 3300-3400 fps, not so much.

I remember when the 17 Remington came out. They claimed the lead would melt and remain molten in the metal jacket until impact.

Consider also that there's downrange, and then there's downrange.

Your bullet covers what we consider downrange in less than one second. Not nearly enough time to transfer heat from the jacket/ core to the tip, or for atmospheric friction drag to create much heat, either.

A mile or two downrange may be different.

With material like that a manufacturer would have quite a bit of control over the heat effects. The Hornady site seems to tout that ability as a significant accomplishment.

I expect we will see some examples of recovered tips in perfect condition here soon.

I'm calling this "melting" of tips 100% hogwash!!!

High speed camera at target distance would settle this pretty quick.

In this thread we find out who has shot poly tipped bullets at long range and who has not.

Yes the tips melt but it takes a G1 BC over .500 and a muzzle velocity over 3000fps and a time of flight over .8 seconds, give or take.

Not really a factor for most hunters but the effect is real and been understood for years by those who tend to shoot a bit at extended distance.

exactly

Hornady would have been better off not explaining schit and just changing the tips.

Then the internet wouldn't have exploded with all the closet rocket scientists.




Dave

Very interesting. Can't say that I've exceeded that, but have come close.

But I've too found tips in the dirt, in animals too.

And I can say this, if you take a tip off a 75 amax thats running around 2900 or so FPS, its going to hit the 6 ring at 600 not the x ring, so I'd think if they were melting, there would be other evidence. But again maybe not enough BC or MV there at all. Maybe if I ever get a 6x22 built...

I did run some Nosler E tips out of the 7x300wtby though messing around and shot a couple of animals with it, certainly over 3000 fps..not sure the G1 though and found tips in 2 of those animals.. they were neat OD green tips is how I recall..

I think math already answered the question.




Travis

Great to see your name again.

I've ever shot an animal at anything like the ranges necessary to see this so I couldn't care less about it though I do like the idea of an AMax with an Interlock ring.

I just get within 500 yards....then IDGAF. Even Corelokts work then.

Controversy has paid off for a good many people lately...until January 20th showed up!

From Hornady:

"Hornady has not taken the possibility of other factors being the cause of the measured increase in drag lightly. Years of testing and evaluation were conducted
to ensure the cause and solution to the observed behavior. Hornady has, and commonly can see the effects of Alpha (Yaw) causing an increase in Cd (Drag Coefficient).

However, if it was an increase in Alpha causing the higher measured Cd values it would be present in every test, in every barrel, under every launch condition, and this is
simply not the case . Although it (Yaw) is present in certain combinations of conditions, it definitely is not present all the time.

The increase in Cd observed due to aerodynamic heating and the increase in meplat diameter is seen in every test with an applicable bullet
(high enough BC), velocity, and ambient air temperature. As is described in the document, taking the exact same projectiles made sequentially
with Heatshield Tips and then with the original tip material, loading them in the same cartridge with the same load, and firing out of the same rifle
sequentially on radar shows the reduction in Cd with the Heatshield Tip technology and the predictable increase in Cd seen with the original tip material.
This has also been observed from a point of impact standpoint of shooters in the field. The ELD-Match has less drop and wind than it’s equal predecessor in the A-MAX
in the same conditions with the same load".



people have said:

"There simply isn't enough time to soak through the specific heat capacity of conventional BT material and thus raise temperature beyond its stable limit"

yet those people have not proven that what Hornady claims isn't happening.

But think of all the other fun things we could do with an ultra-slo mo camera