I'm confused now, am I doing it wrong using the slide release.
It's a slide STOP, not a slide release. LOL. Just kidding. I've heard that said before to people who use the slide release instead of manually racking it.
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
I've used the slide release ever since I sliced open my hand on the rear blade of a BoMar sight on a 1911 doing a sling-shot. I've noticed no decrease in speed. I just learned to use the slide release and continued doing it. I'll slingshot if the slide-stop doesn't work, or if I need to clear a jam (tap-rack, etc.) but otherwise I use the slide release.
I also do not believe in the whole "stress ruins fine motor skills" mantra. If you are adequately trained to perform a motion--fine or not--you will be able perform it under stress. If you aren't trained, you won't. And if you can't that's not the fault of the movement pattern.
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
You don't have to do it.
Dink
Explain how a "maximum length cartridge" would sit farther back in a magazine, which is the only scenario where moving the slide back would make a difference.
Any "maximum length would have to be at the front end.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
Talking amongst a number of combat vets, who are routinely training to hone those skills, in the capacity of professional soldiers and/or law enforcement, I will hear some say "slingshot", but it is a given amongst them, that this term does not describe the use of the thumb and finger to pull against the rear of the slide, like a slingshot. To eliminate confusion, you will now hear this poor technique of thumb and finger as being called slingshot, as that is what it mirrors, with the correct overhand technique being described as a power stroke, same as used to clear a malfunction.
Why the slingshot is bad and power stroke is good? Under stress, it is easy to ride the slide home w/ slingshot, not so w/ power stroke. The power stroke uses large muscle groups and gross motor skills. Such power stroke is also the same technique used to clear a malfunction.
Use of the slide lock is indeed a bit faster, but it does carry baggage in combat. It is a weaker technique requiring fine motor skills, and it is a completely different and added technique having no value at clearing a malfunction. Also, it does not maximize slide travel and spring power to aid placing the pistol into battery. Now, the trend is to save the slide lock for timed competition, while saving the power stroke for two way gun fights.
There are some exceptions, such as certain pistol designs can be placed on safe while the slide is quickly worked with a power stroke.
Me personally, I would only consider a combat pistol that could readily be power stroked, either 2-handed, or 1-handed off strong sights. Would not use extended slide lock as it adds risk of engagement with a high straight thumb combat grip.
Your life is on the line, so you're going with the slower method? This thinking makes zero sense to me. If my life is on the line speed is definitely needed!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
You don't have to do it.
Dink
Explain how a "maximum length cartridge" would sit farther back in a magazine, which is the only scenario where moving the slide back would make a difference.
Any "maximum length would have to be at the front end.
I didn't write the article.
But if I remember correctly it gives the long cartridge plenty of room as it strips off the mag and hits the feed ramp( in case it slides to one side or the other go up the feed ramp). It also gives the slide plenty of power to overcome any extra drag.
Everyone has had the first round out the magazine not feed properly and end up in a stove pipe. I believe that the slingshot method helps prevent this.
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
dirt, that link to ebay did not work for me. It said I had to be the purchaser. What did you get? Thanks.
Sorry, Sako. I copy and pasted the link out of my email from the seller. I guess it somehow had a hook to My Ebay account.
Here is the direct link to the NDZ Performance page for the 3.5 lb connector. Supposed to take your stock Glock trigger down to a very smooth 3.5 lb pull. For ~ $10 I figured why not try it. Easy enough to remove if I don't like it.
Talking amongst a number of combat vets, who are routinely training to hone those skills, in the capacity of professional soldiers and/or law enforcement, I will hear some say "slingshot", but it is a given amongst them, that this term does not describe the use of the thumb and finger to pull against the rear of the slide, like a slingshot. To eliminate confusion, you will now hear this poor technique of thumb and finger as being called slingshot, as that is what it mirrors, with the correct overhand technique being described as a power stroke, same as used to clear a malfunction.
Why the slingshot is bad and power stroke is good? Under stress, it is easy to ride the slide home w/ slingshot, not so w/ power stroke. The power stroke uses large muscle groups and gross motor skills. Such power stroke is also the same technique used to clear a malfunction.
Use of the slide lock is indeed a bit faster, but it does carry baggage in combat. It is a weaker technique requiring fine motor skills, and it is a completely different and added technique having no value at clearing a malfunction. Also, it does not maximize slide travel and spring power to aid placing the pistol into battery. Now, the trend is to save the slide lock for timed competition, while saving the power stroke for two way gun fights.
There are some exceptions, such as certain pistol designs can be placed on safe while the slide is quickly worked with a power stroke.
Me personally, I would only consider a combat pistol that could readily be power stroked, either 2-handed, or 1-handed off strong sights. Would not use extended slide lock as it adds risk of engagement with a high straight thumb combat grip.
Your life is on the line, so you're going with the slower method? This thinking makes zero sense to me. If my life is on the line speed is definitely needed!
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat. But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
1. Skill level. Right off the bat let's go ahead and address this one. The average 10 year old playing Pee-Wee football is better at football than 99% of soldiers/Marines/police/agents are at shooting. I've worked at a couple of addresses whose duties included teaching and actually measuring the skill level of gun carriers using real standards.
Measuring pure accuracy, drawing, recoil control, target to target transitions, reloading, malfunction clearances and stress tests, etc; if a person does not belong to a national SMU, dedicated mil HR unit, or shoot USPSA/3-Gun/IDPA regularly- they will at best be barely mediocre. Even if they are in one of those organizations, if they don't shoot action competitions the best shooter that I have ever seen was in the high "D" low "C" class range for USPSA..... That ain't "good" nor close.
This isn't talking smack- it's reality. Very few ( like 4-5) organizations have the funding, latitude and institutional knowledge to produce measurably good shooters. Of those that do- EVERY SINGLE ONE uses GM ranked USPSA/3-Gun shooters to teach gun handling and marksmanship techniques.
2. Anything you do with your fingers is a "fine motor skill". The whole "grasping the slide is a gross motor skill" is complete and utter BS. Using the sights, pressing the trigger, hitting the mag release, and using the slide release are ALL the same. The reason that people can't hit the slide release under stress is because they are horribly, woefully untrained.
3. I can't think of an actual top level trainer or shooter that teaches anything other than using the slide release. "Top level trainer" being a world class action competitor and/or member of one of the very top mil/LE organizations that is also a top level competitor. Using an overhand or slingshot technique to reload is MEASURABLY slower. And since it is quite easy to teach someone to use the slides release under stress- they do.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat.
The differences and applicability between the various competitions and sports can not be overstated... So in that vain- what "national level" skill did you achieve and in which venue?
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
Well yes, things do evolve... but not in the way that you've stated. Early in the war there was a huge rift between "combat" and "competition" in most of the military and LE communities. The only places where there wasn't was the very top level orgs as I stated above. As time went one there has been a trickle down effect with even "regular" special units are getting some training with the top guys. As it has went the gap between the shooting techniques the "combat" people are doing and what the "competition" people are doing has narrowed considerably. To the point that in some places USPSA GM's and 3-Gun competitors are running the programs... It makes sense. Shooting is shooting. The gun doesn't know whether it's being aimed at a piece of paper, steel or person- the only difference is the emotion that the shooter brings to the task.
The fastest most efficient techniques are the fastest most efficient techniques. Practice and train them until they are subconscious under stress and then don't worry about it.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
So you understand that one way is better, but choose to use a slower technique- why? Just train the better technique.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Being able to tell when you are at slide lock versus having a malfunction isn't "high speed", that's basic level skill. If a shooter can't tell when his gun has locked back by feel- they're not trained.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
I shot around 14,000 sim rounds personally in 2016, and watched around 200,000 or so get shot by mates and others in training. Once a person has a solid skill level with the gun on the range, it takes about 4-5 focused and structured force on force evolutions to ingrain those skills- i.e. Sights, trigger, reloads.
I agree 100%. Trigger control is a fine motor skill and if you can't do that nothing else matters. Useing a slower method in combat is an idiotic idea.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
1. Skill level. Right off the bat let's go ahead and address this one. The average 10 year old playing Pee-Wee football is better at football than 99% of soldiers/Marines/police/agents are at shooting. I've worked at a couple of addresses whose duties included teaching and actually measuring the skill level of gun carriers using real standards.
Measuring pure accuracy, drawing, recoil control, target to target transitions, reloading, malfunction clearances and stress tests, etc; if a person does not belong to a national SMU, dedicated mil HR unit, or shoot USPSA/3-Gun/IDPA regularly- they will at best be barely mediocre. Even if they are in one of those organizations, if they don't shoot action competitions the best shooter that I have ever seen was in the high "D" low "C" class range for USPSA..... That ain't "good" nor close.
This isn't talking smack- it's reality. Very few ( like 4-5) organizations have the funding, latitude and institutional knowledge to produce measurably good shooters. Of those that do- EVERY SINGLE ONE uses GM ranked USPSA/3-Gun shooters to teach gun handling and marksmanship techniques.
2. Anything you do with your fingers is a "fine motor skill". The whole "grasping the slide is a gross motor skill" is complete and utter BS. Using the sights, pressing the trigger, hitting the mag release, and using the slide release are ALL the same. The reason that people can't hit the slide release under stress is because they are horribly, woefully untrained.
3. I can't think of an actual top level trainer or shooter that teaches anything other than using the slide release. "Top level trainer" being a world class action competitor and/or member of one of the very top mil/LE organizations that is also a top level competitor. Using an overhand or slingshot technique to reload is MEASURABLY slower. And since it is quite easy to teach someone to use the slides release under stress- they do.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat.
The differences and applicability between the various competitions and sports can not be overstated... So in that vain- what "national level" skill did you achieve and in which venue?
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
Well yes, things do evolve... but not in the way that you've stated. Early in the war there was a huge rift between "combat" and "competition" in most of the military and LE communities. The only places where there wasn't was the very top level orgs as I stated above. As time went one there has been a trickle down effect with even "regular" special units are getting some training with the top guys. As it has went the gap between the shooting techniques the "combat" people are doing and what the "competition" people are doing has narrowed considerably. To the point that in some places USPSA GM's and 3-Gun competitors are running the programs... It makes sense. Shooting is shooting. The gun doesn't know whether it's being aimed at a piece of paper, steel or person- the only difference is the emotion that the shooter brings to the task.
The fastest most efficient techniques are the fastest most efficient techniques. Practice and train them until they are subconscious under stress and then don't worry about it.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
So you understand that one way is better, but choose to use a slower technique- why? Just train the better technique.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Being able to tell when you are at slide lock versus having a malfunction isn't "high speed", that's basic level skill. If a shooter can't tell when his gun has locked back by feel- they're not trained.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
I shot around 14,000 sim rounds personally in 2016, and watched around 200,000 or so get shot by mates and others in training. Once a person has a solid skill level with the gun on the range, it takes about 4-5 focused and structured force on force evolutions to ingrain those skills- i.e. Sights, trigger, reloads.
This guy is a GD cyber-bully.
I'm going home.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house