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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
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Have posted this before, but will again:
The optical rule-of-thumb is that the average (20/20) unaided human eye can resolve about an inch at 100 yards. That means it can see the difference between alternating 1/2" black and white lines. Beyond 100 yards the lines will appear gray.
With good optics the resolution correlates directly to magnification: a 4x scope will help us resolve 1/4" at 100 yards, a 10x scope 1/10", a 20x scope 1/20", etc. If we use an aiming point where the reticle can be pretty precisely applied, and there's no parallax in the scope at 100 yards, then a rifle will the ability to average .5" groups at 100 with a 20x scope should average .7" with a 4x scope, since .25" (4x scope resolution error) minus .05" (20x scope resolution error) is .2".
So yes, a higher-magnification scope SHOULD result in smaller groups at 100 yards, but the difference isn't nearly as much as many people believe. The difference in optical error between 10x and 20x scopes is only .05"--less than 1/16th inch at 100 yards.
If somebody's shooting groups at 100 yards with a 10x scope several times the size of groups shot with a 20x scope, then the error lies elsewhere than magnification--perhaps in parallax, but more probably in shooter error, including using an aiming point inappropriate to the reticle and magnification. That "thunk" sound you heard after reading this post was Mule deer droppin' the mic. We've officially been taken to school.
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
PS- There are NO rifles comparable to the Kimber Montana.
None. Zero. Nada.
Clark Thank God. I'm guessing you still don't own one. Dave Tikka superlight.....end of discussion. LOL
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
That's how liars from West Texas say "You're right, I don't own one."
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 |
Not only do I not own one, I wouldn't own one if you gave it to me and I most definitely wouldn't waste money buying one. Only advantage to the Kimber is the stock looks better. Other than that it can't carry Tikka's jock strap.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
What level of fugking idiot logs onto the internet every week, to berate a rifle he has never owned?
I mean I know you're fugkin' stupid, but JFC.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 |
I just spent 33 days hunting in the field hunting mule deer, along with a friend of mine who has one. It proved to be of no interest to me for obvious reasons. My $199 Ruger American shoots way better than his freaking $1000 Kimber.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I just spent 33 days hunting in the field hunting mule deer, along with a friend of mine who has one. It proved to be of no interest to me for obvious reasons. My $199 Ruger American shoots way better than his freaking $1000 Kimber. More brilliance. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 |
Thanks, but it's not really brilliance, as it was easy to see how overrated the Kimber is.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 920
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 920 |
The Kimbers are criminally underrated by most folks. IMO.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Yes.
Clearly the Ruger American is on par with the Kimber Montana.
Anybody that hasn't owned either knows this.
Thanks again for sharing.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 |
Your welcome. Accuracy wise, it's just one of many that outpaces the Kimber.
BTW, you ought to be keeping that Sako you'e trying to sell and ditch that Kimber trash. Even with the 50 year age difference that Sako is ten times the rifle. I get it that Kimber's are lightweight, require tinkering, and are superbly inaccurate, but pull your head out dude.
Last edited by JGRaider; 02/06/17.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
It's pretty obvious you don't "get" anything about the Kimber at all.
But by God, you sure seem to enjoy talking about a product you've never owned.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044 |
There is NO RIFLE COMPARABLE TO THE KIMBER MONTANA.
Dave Certainly no factory rifle. The Tikka ain't bad but the Kimber has no peer. I'm not guessing. I've owned multiples copies of Kimbers and Tikkas.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
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Posts: 7,722
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722 |
I just spent 33 days hunting in the field hunting mule deer, . Forget the gun talk let's see the pics of the bucks!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,182
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,182 |
I guess I just got lucky, 3 times...
First Montana I traded for was in 204 Ruger from a member here, maybe he done all the tricks but it didn't look like he touched it. Bought a box of 40 grain V-max's and went to see how it shot before I ordered dies for it. Put 3 shots in .75" at 100 yards so I went back and bought all the ammo they had left. It now shoots those same factory rounds, 35 gr Berger reloads and 40 gr Berger reloads almost to the same point of aim. Close enough I don't re-zero.
Bought a 243 and sent it off for a new barrel in 22-250-AI and it shoots just as well but I guess the Douglas barrel doesn't count.
Bought one in 223 and sent it off to be set back and punched AI, it shoots about the same.
Yes I clipped the magazine box on the 204 and 223, bedded all 3 of them, ordered a new follower and spring for my 22-250AI but that's it. I don't even look at other brands anymore.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 |
I just spent 33 days hunting in the field hunting mule deer, . Forget the gun talk let's see the pics of the bucks! Look in the deer hunting forum.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,219 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,219 Likes: 4 |
I just spent 33 days hunting in the field hunting mule deer, . Forget the gun talk let's see the pics of the bucks! Look in the deer hunting forum. Don't do it, it will only give you low self-esteem. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 252
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 252 |
Believe it or not, there are lightweight rifles that don't have bendable forends, and shoot consistently no matter where you rest the forend. I have one of those! It's a Kimber Montana .308
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705 |
Been watching this entertaining thread; what a laugh. Sitting round a real campfire with you folks would be real interesting, mouth guards and all...
I've never owned a Kimber so I'll refrain comment there.
Have owned a few Sakos though and still have one, albeit a cheapy A7.
Had an L46, 461 and a 75. Not trying to provoke argument but I always thought they were a little overrated. Maybe I should say over priced really, because while they're good rifles, I couldn't ever see the value in them at the price they fetch.
I mean they're 5 times the price of a Howa, and if you're lucky they might shoot groups 10-15% smaller. Is that worth the money on a hunting rifle?
Not for me.
At least for the extra money you spend on a Kimber Montana you get something really light which you don't get in any Sako, except for those CarbonLight things which for the money, I wouldn't go near.
Mind you these days there aren't a lot of awful new hunting rifles. Most of them can outshoot me. Matter of preference more than anything I think.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I would not be afraid to buy a new Kimber, if I otherwise wanted one. A used one I'd avoid unless I could test fire it, or otherwise know for sure it shot well. Or got it so cheap I could afford to rebarrel it.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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