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Originally Posted By 4ager
Planned Parenthood was the brain-child of a white supremacist, Nazi-collaborating, eugenicist. It is doing, albeit it too slowly, what she wanted.
Abortion is still an unjustified homicide (murder), which those like Snyper refuse to admit in the face of biology, physiology, logic, or any other argument. It is also a eugenicist Nazi's dream, which they also refuse to admit. Bullshit. You just want to force your standards on everyone else, when it's really none of your business. You'd make a good ISIS recruit. They like forcing their beliefs on others just like you. They just aren't as hypocritical about it as you. And don't waste your time on a reply because I only see your drivel when someone quotes it, since I've heard all the same bullshit from you already. You've run from the argument every time, because you cannot refute biology, logical, philosophy, or morality. Run away again; it's the only play you have. Qouted for Snypers beneifit There's nothing to run from. You spout the same mindless BS rhetoric in every post, and pretend what other people do is your business. I don't care what you think about biology, logic philosophy or morality because you only want to control what other people do. You are only important to yourself You don't mean anything to me and you have no right to dictate to anyone. You're just one more A-hole in a world full of them. You're not much of a lawyer either if you think abortion is murder, since one is legal and one is not. So, that's an admission that you still don't have any answer for the biological, logical, moral, or philosophical truths that you continue to deny and cannot overcome. Great; thanks for playing, and have fun with that reliance on legalism that also justifies every other atrocity mentioned.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Absolutely relavent if one believes that beginging of consciousness is the moment a soul begins. The concept of "quickening" is historically relevant in the in Old English law as to whether or not murder has been committed or not.
Once again, when does consciousness begin? The brain splits into two hemispheres and memory begins during month six. I've not once said a word about "soul" or "quickening", as it is irrelevant.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The problems that the defenders of abortion face start with biology, followed by logic, and the Constitution (supported by philosophy and morality).
First, they must try to deny the biological fact that the child is human, which cannot be done. Logically, then, that child must be a distinct human and therefore a person, which they must also attempt to deny and that denial fails.
If the child is, in fact, a human and therefore a person, then it ought to be protected by the Constitution as would any other person. To deny this goes against the philosophical and moral underpinnings of American culture that holds that all men/persons are created equal, and that all are entitled to the life, livery, and the pursuit of happiness. In order for the pro-abortion stance to be justified, they must deny those rights to the child and they must hold that the mother has rights beyond that of any other person (that to simply kill another person for mere convenience). Those are anathemas to the Constitution and to the foundation of American freedoms.
In the end, they are left with having to defend an indefensible position that denies biology and logic, goes against the Constitution and thus the moral and philosophical basis of America, and they must hold that some are created inferior to others while others are created superior to the rest. To base a position like that, justified only by legalism echoes perfectly with the claims of slave traders, Nazis, Chinese communists, and the most hard-line of Islamists. They will, of course, attempt to deny this as well, but facts prove plainly otherwise. Your argument falls at it's first premise. An embryo is not a child, it is an embryo. Is the DNA human, or not? The embryonic stage is very short, between conception and implantation, and abortion does not occur during this stage. The embryo, once implantation takes place, is a HUMAN fetus, by definition a human offspring, ergo a child. That's biology, and undeniable, though you must try to deny it as everything else stems from it. Implantation doesn't occur until up to week 4, so are you ok with abortifacients up to week 4? If the embryo is not implanted, it cannot be viable. Not being "okay" with that process would also call into question the millions/billions of fertilized eggs (embryos) in frozen stasis in reproductive facilities. I have never, not once, wavered from the implantation stance. Beyond implantation, there is the traditional rule of self-defense (not mere convenience), and that covers the rare exceptions within pregnancies that abortionists reach for when cornered.
Last edited by 4ager; 02/23/17.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Let's push your argument to its logical conclusion, OK? You are fine with a mother killing her two hear old toddler because the mother is running her own life, right? After all, most of us can hardly run our own lives well let alone someone else's.
Did I get that right? No you haven't gotten anything right. You know that's an irrational argument to begin with since it advocates doing something illegal. You won't get it right until you realize you only get to control what you do, not what anyone else does. Reverting to legalism? Great; that could be used just as easily to justify and excuse slavery, or the Holocaust, as both of those were legal at the time. Female genital mutilation, the stoning of homosexuals and of women even accused of adultery, or just walking without a male relative as a chaperone, are also legal in parts of the world. Your reliance on legalism to excuse any action justifies those. As to the "controlling only what one does, and not that of another" is exactly the point - the child is a human and ought to have the same rights as any other. You, and those like you, take those rights away from the child based upon mere convenience. Slavery has nothing on that. Once again. If I wanted to hear his mindless repetition I would take him off ignore. Since you seem to have no mind of your own, I'll just ignore you too. Neither of you says anything I haven't heard countless times before. Just admit you're a coward (which you are), and have no argument other than a reliance on legalism (which you don't) that also justifies every atrocity mentioned. The truth - a first for you - shall set you free.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted By DakotaDeer
The point is: the unborn are considered "human" for matters of crimes against others. Abortionists here are trying to say that the unborn child is not human, and claiming that American jurisprudence backs that assertion. It does not. That's your fantasy. Of course it's "human" And it's still none of your business. American jurisprudence backs that Ah, legalism.... so glad to know that you finally admit that the child is human. The rest of the logical progression follows from there. Legalism justified slavery, the Holocaust, the Chinese "Great Leap Forward", and now justifies Sharia law (among others); good to know where you stand on those now, too.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I absolutely understand.I don't believe in abortion myself, but more than not believing in abortion I believe in minding my own life.
Lots of Christians like to play god. They apparently lack faith that God will be the judge. So, you'd rather other play God instead? The only people playing God are those killing children without just cause. Once you figure that out, you'll be ahead of the game. I'd rather let people choose their own fate. I don't have to sleep with knowing that I killed a fetus nor knowing that I brought a baby with known life threatening problems into the world. .....nor anywhere in between. Site your verses that tell you to be the one who judoes when your neighbor should be unable to make choices, or the one that says you should judge when others make choices. It's a fundamentalist thing, much like Muslims, they feel the world must conform to their beliefs or suffer. Great. So, when does the child get to determine their own fate? It's not a fundamentalist thing; it's a logical and consistent thing. The parents made a host of choices that led to the pregnancy. Any one of those choices prior could have prevented it. Once it happens, it's a human life. There is no legal, logical, or rational reason to kill another human without just cause - and inconvenience isn't a just cause. You got defensive and forgot to answer my question. Furthermore, don't confuse my stance ad defending abortion, I don't defend it. What I'm defending is the right for an American to make choices regarding their own fate. If we force our decisions upon others, or take the rights to make difficult choices from others because we don't feel it's right we continue to stay divided as a nation. I don't like a lot of people's choices, but I don't have to. ....they're not my choices to live with.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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I absolutely understand.I don't believe in abortion myself, but more than not believing in abortion I believe in minding my own life.
Lots of Christians like to play god. They apparently lack faith that God will be the judge. So, you'd rather other play God instead? The only people playing God are those killing children without just cause. Once you figure that out, you'll be ahead of the game. I'd rather let people choose their own fate. I don't have to sleep with knowing that I killed a fetus nor knowing that I brought a baby with known life threatening problems into the world. .....nor anywhere in between. Site your verses that tell you to be the one who judoes when your neighbor should be unable to make choices, or the one that says you should judge when others make choices. It's a fundamentalist thing, much like Muslims, they feel the world must conform to their beliefs or suffer. Great. So, when does the child get to determine their own fate? It's not a fundamentalist thing; it's a logical and consistent thing. The parents made a host of choices that led to the pregnancy. Any one of those choices prior could have prevented it. Once it happens, it's a human life. There is no legal, logical, or rational reason to kill another human without just cause - and inconvenience isn't a just cause. You got defensive and forgot to answer my question. Furthermore, don't confuse my stance ad defending abortion, I don't defend it. What I'm defending is the right for an American to make choices regarding their own fate. If we force our decisions upon others, or take the rights to make difficult choices from others because we don't feel it's right we continue to stay divided as a nation. I don't like a lot of people's choices, but I don't have to. ....they're not my choices to live with. What question was overlooked? The request to "cite verses"? Please show me where I've made a religious argument in opposition to abortion, and your request becomes relevant. You cannot, because I have not. Also, once you admit that the child is a person, and therefore ought to have the same rights, the rest of your position becomes extremely difficult to defend as it is self-conflicting.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I'd rather let people choose their own fate. I don't have to sleep with knowing that I killed a fetus nor knowing that I brought a baby with known life threatening problems into the world. .....nor anywhere in between. Site your verses that tell you to be the one who judoes when your neighbor should be unable to make choices, or the one that says you should judge when others make choices.
It's a fundamentalist thing, much like Muslims, they feel the world must conform to their beliefs or suffer. [/quote]
Great. So, when does the child get to determine their own fate? It's not a fundamentalist thing; it's a logical and consistent thing. The parents made a host of choices that led to the pregnancy. Any one of those choices prior could have prevented it. Once it happens, it's a human life. There is no legal, logical, or rational reason to kill another human without just cause - and inconvenience isn't a just cause. [/quote]
You got defensive and forgot to answer my question.
Furthermore, don't confuse my stance ad defending abortion, I don't defend it. What I'm defending is the right for an American to make choices regarding their own fate. If we force our decisions upon others, or take the rights to make difficult choices from others because we don't feel it's right we continue to stay divided as a nation.
I don't like a lot of people's choices, but I don't have to. ....they're not my choices to live with. [/quote]
What question was overlooked? The request to "cite verses"? Please show me where I've made a religious argument in opposition to abortion, and your request becomes relevant. You cannot, because I have not.
Also, once you admit that the child is a person, and therefore ought to have the same rights, the rest of your position becomes extremely difficult to defend as it is self-conflicting. [/quote]
Fundamentalists, be it christian or Muslim will always defend their interpretation of religion.
I guess I'm a fundamentalist American, I believe that people should be allowed to make and live with their choices. I don't believe that I nor you can run our lives so well that we should be allowed to control another from personal success nor harm.
No verses sited......still.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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I'm not making a religious argument, as I am basing the argument on fundamentalist American ideals and not on religion. I've not once based my opposition to abortion on any faith. You're trying to paint it that way, and it's completely false. Since there is no religious basis to my argument, there is no need to cite any verses.
As to being fundamentally American; yep, that's my argument. I believe that all people within the United States (which includes the children in question) are protected are entitled to the same protections under the Constitution, the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that none are more or less equal than others.
Your position is directly counter to that.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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So, is anything that does not directly affect a person ok as its "not their business" ?
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I'm not making a religious argument, as I am basing the argument on fundamentalist American ideals and not on religion. I've not once based my opposition to abortion on any faith. You're trying to paint it that way, and it's completely false. Since there is no religious basis to my argument, there is no need to cite any verses.
As to being fundamentally American; yep, that's my argument. I believe that all people within the United States (which includes the children in question) are protected are entitled to the same protections under the Constitution, the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that none are more or less equal than others.
Your position is directly counter to that. You are correct. I don't believe that anyone without any documentation showing they are American deserve any of the constitutional rights. The problem with allowing you to control another person's decision on abortion is that opens the door for them to control your decisions. We've seen it with Obama's administration, no more large pop's because they're bad for you....etc. Given the right lawyers and courts we could lose alcohol, tobacco and firearms. Think guns protection by the 2a saves us? If the argument that lead, noise, flash.....etc are all dangerous to health and you're suddenly facing the same fight as the libs are on abortion. I'll just stick to running my life and let people enjoy and suffer their decisions.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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I'm not making a religious argument, as I am basing the argument on fundamentalist American ideals and not on religion. I've not once based my opposition to abortion on any faith. You're trying to paint it that way, and it's completely false. Since there is no religious basis to my argument, there is no need to cite any verses.
As to being fundamentally American; yep, that's my argument. I believe that all people within the United States (which includes the children in question) are protected are entitled to the same protections under the Constitution, the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that none are more or less equal than others.
Your position is directly counter to that. You are correct. I don't believe that anyone without any documentation showing they are American deserve any of the constitutional rights. The problem with allowing you to control another person's decision on abortion is that opens the door for them to control your decisions. We've seen it with Obama's administration, no more large pop's because they're bad for you....etc. Given the right lawyers and courts we could lose alcohol, tobacco and firearms. Think guns protection by the 2a saves us? If the argument that lead, noise, flash.....etc are all dangerous to health and you're suddenly facing the same fight as the libs are on abortion. I'll just stick to running my life and let people enjoy and suffer their decisions. Tony, I respect you, and your opinions. Could you, perhaps, flesh out how you equate having a child within the US protected under the Constitution from being put to death out of mere convenience is connected to the repeal of the 2A? I'm just not following that line of thinking. Thanks.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Describe "having a child". I see it as being pregnant.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Tony,
"Having a child protected...", not "having a child".
Somehow you are drawing a line between keeping kids from being killed for mere convenience to a loss of enumerated rights. How you get from one to the other is unclear.
Try again, please. No insult intended.
Last edited by 4ager; 02/24/17.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Not-with-standing the moral aspects of abortion, if we were to go back to the OPs initial supposition..... Do BLM??? It is difficult for me to jump on the bandwagon and offer much help. I do think that there are good people that are trying, however the rest is very vocal, loud, obnoxious, feel entitled, demanding and are about 99.9% Democrat wanting to do little but throw my money at 'something' claiming that it will fix 'it', whatever 'it' is.... Sorry! Given www.heyjackass.com and the FACT that more black babies are aborted in NYC than are born..... It strikes me that BL-don't-M to BLACKS, or the rest of the Democrat populous for that matter, and until they do, as disgusting as it is, you can call me ambivalent.... I had a family member that suggested I should have attended weddings 4 and 5.......... Sorry, but if YOU can't take it seriously I'm not going to either.... IMHO.
Last edited by muffin; 02/24/17.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
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It strikes me that BL-don't-M to BLACKS, or the rest of the Democrat populous for that matter, and until they do, as disgusting as it is, you can call me abivalent....
On that, I agree, save two exceptions (linked) a they matter dead when they can be used a political pawns, and when (alive or dead) they can be used by the family to win a sick version of the "ghetto lotto" by suing the city and/or white folks. Other than that, no, clearly BL-don't-M to blacks.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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It's all Whitey's fault!!
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So, is anything that does not directly affect a person ok as its "not their business" ?
That covers most things quite well. I realize you're just trying to use an extreme generalization though. It especially applies to "moral" issues since "morals" are a matter of opinion. Religion is the same thing. If you like yours, that's fine. You just can't force it on anyone else.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Abortion is homicide, people kill each other for all kinds of reasons and justify it in just as many ways, human life has always been expendable... cracks me up when folks try to deny that truth.
Our umbrella of protection from others is small in reality, a few care if we live or die, if your mama don't want you to live chances are you won't.
Why be an apologist for homicide/abortion... be proud, carry a sign, kill another.
My give a chit for folks that support homicide and then caterwaul how they have rights and need personal protection to live is nonexistent, protect yourself without my support or tax dollars... good luck.
Kent
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Originally Posted By 4ager
I'm not making a religious argument, as I am basing the argument on fundamentalist American ideals and not on religion. I've not once based my opposition to abortion on any faith. You're trying to paint it that way, and it's completely false. Since there is no religious basis to my argument, there is no need to cite any verses.
As to being fundamentally American; yep, that's my argument. You mean fundamentally bullshit. The true American way would be freedom of choice and independence, while you want to play dictator and tell others how to live. You're a hypocrite and a control freak as well as being a professional bullshitter.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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