Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters self loader questions for JB

I'm early in the process of loading ammo for a 401 WSL and I have a few questions.

1) I'm starting with 7.62x39 brass, what is the easiest way to expand the brass? I've already learned that using previously fired brass is a bad idea.

2) because these rifles are pressure dependent for their operation, should I start low and work up until the rifle operates reliably, or start close to max and adjust from there?
3) looking at an older Alliant manual, I saw that they loaded the .357 Maximum, almost a twin of the .351 WSL, with RL7 and gained 310 fps over 2400 with a 200 grain bullet. I suspect similar gains could be made for the 401. Do you think it would be a good idea to try? I'm not sure. I see no reason you couldn't safely work up a load till the action functions and then stop, you know you're not over pressure. My concern is that at operating pressure with a slower powder, residual pressure is still somewhat high when the action opens, and that might be bad.

I don't know if you have any experience with these rifles to answer the last two questions, but you're the most knowledgeable, clear thinking person on the internet and I trust your opinion. Any help is appreciated.

thanks, Tim









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Welcome to the Campfire, and thanks for the vote of confidence.

But I'm afraid my answers will be of little use to you--except perhaps to work up until action function is reliable, rather than starting at the top.

Have never loaded a .401 so have no experience what the brass-forming problems might be, but would suspect running new 7.62x39 brass into a full-length die with a tapered expander ball would work. Either that, or expand the necks incrementally, using say .33, .35. and .375 expanders before using the full-length die. It might be a good idea to re-anneal somewhere in there, maybe between each step up.

In fire-forming brass for the 257 Roberts AI I found that unfired (virgin) brass is better than once fired brass. The once fired brass doesn't always expand properly and may need to be fired again. However, the unfired brass tends to fire-form, to the chamber on the first shot.

So, as you found out, once fired brass is not a good choice. That's my experience anyway.

And welcome to the fire.

Dutz,

You don't mention whether you have John Henwood's book, "The Forgotten Winchesters" (copyright 1995). It is pretty much the bible regarding the whole series of Winchester self-loading rifles.

It contains step-by-step directions for creating cases and reloading info. It appears that all his loads used IMR-4227 or Hercules 2400.

It seems to me the real goal with loading for these rifles is reliable function without stressing or battering anything. Because these rifles are simple blow-back actions, this necessitates a rather narrow band of performance.

The velocity of the bullet is just what it winds up being.

Here is a paragraph straight from the book:

"The author's favorite load is 13.5 grains of Hercules 2400, which gives a velocity of 1109 fps. He uses a 220 gr Lyman #410459 bullet (a semi-wadcutter intended for the 41 Magnum) sized to .410", seated to the crimp groove and lightly crimped. This combination gives an overall length of 1.902", well under the maximum length of 2.005". There are two reasons for the light load. First, the bullet is oversized, .407" is the preferred diameter, but no such sizing die is currently offered. Second, that load provides all the recoil anyone could desire. The author would have been willing to bet that the semi-wadcutter bullet would not feed; he would have lost, it feeds perfectly."

The author also says he likes the same load, but substituting 20 grains of IMR-4227 for a velocity of 1364 fps. He also mentions some cast bullet loads of the proper size (.407") being loaded up to as much as 1968 fps. Apparently the proper size bullets (and molds and sizing dies) were hard to come by.

Mr Henwood tested these loads in cases he made from 30-30 cases, but he also made cases from 7.62x39 brass.

Good luck with your project. I have my grandfather's M-1907 .351 WSL, which I can load for, but it gets shot very little.

For what it's worth, the old(er) Ideal/Lyman Hand Books list limited data for the .401. In Ideal #39 with one exception all data is either with 4227 or 2400. That one exception is 10 gr. Unique with a 250 gr. cast bullet #410426 for a velocity of 1330. Some of these older handbooks are available on line at
http://castpics.net/dpl/
Regards, Woody

Thanks for the replies. I have the older Lyman manuals but not the Henwood book, when copies of that are available, they're usually awfully pricey, so I probably won't get that one. I did get a new bag of brass so we'll see how that works.
With 200 gr bullets, I did learn Lymans starting load of Unique won't operate the action but 14 grains will, as will 20 grains of 2400, so I'll probably keep loads in that range. My home state may legalize self loaders for hunting next year, so I may try working up something heavier, but that's a wait and see. I'm happy right now just being able to shoot it.

thanks again, Tim