Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Sale of public lands and drilling everywhere

Most people in the fickle industries can accept them being fickle if the forces driving events are market forces. People understand markets and market cycles, that's the core of a capitalist, free society. But when the markets are distorted by politics, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fickle fish. I'm guessing you got caught up in the Rifle collapse, which was, from start to finish, political more than market.

As for TPL to states, the sick truth is, there are real grassroots forces out there who have real concerns about the terrible way that the federal estate is being mis-managed. Federal law is horrendous for many, really great for a few, and almost mandates irrational outcomes that waste money and resources. The federal land management system, in the view many in closest routine contact, is badly broken and in screaming need of many reforms, which I hope would be aimed at less process and more results, more "greatest good in the long run."
So is there any surprise that the level of frustration and disenfranchisement has engendered widespread desire to break away entirely, to a government at least CLOSER to the people most affected?
And is it any surprise that Greens, who have enjoyed power far out of proportion to their actual presence on the ground, are spending hidden millions to quash any possible political opposition that shows signs of any genuine political traction?
As for the Bakken, well, yeah, but on balance, North Dakota is overall better off financially and has more options for its future, while the country at large also clearly has come out ahead. Could the boom have been less nuts? I wish, but oil WAS at 150 a barrel and gas four bucks. Now it's about half that, a good thing hands down.

I live in a county that is 67% Federal and BLM controlled. Do I like the way they operate? Not particularly, they are heavy-handed, they make decisions without taking local inputs into account although they are supposed to by law. They are closing roads that have been in existence for over 100 years, they have made running cattle on the Forest and BLM all but impossible. Logging - forget about it, mining, not a chance in hell.

But even as much as I dislike the Feds I would still rather have them in charge than having it under State ownership. Under State ownership it would only be a matter of time until it is sold off to the highest bidders. We are already seeing out of state owners buying up large chunks to block access to the Forest and BLM lands now and there is no doubt in my mind that it would be worse under state ownership.

just my .02 cents

drover

I wonder if there's just not any economically profitable locatable/leasable mineral deposits in your part of Idaho???

There's quite a bit of mining on federally administered land in Wyoming. Oil and gas, coal, trona, phosphates, etc. Its mainly on BLM administered land, though the FS has some too. They both get hit hard with greenie lawsuits, but the mining does occur.

Yes, I did. The whole thing. Lots of holes in the story.

I can't disagree with the fact that there are people with legitimate concerns. If there is truly a tidal wave of grassroots support for divestiture, it'll happen. But as I said earlier, you have to go back to the Reagan administration to find one as motivated to upset the federal apple cart and cut the size of federal government as this one. And they don't seem to have the divestiture of public lands on the radar. In fact, the key people in the administration are against it.

And to get a sampling of public opinion, just read the posts here, like drover's above. This place is not what you would call a left-wing bastion but there seems to be little support here. The consensus pick seems to be the devil you know.

Link to a Public lands rally in Boise yesterday -

http://www.postregister.com/article...03/04/public-lands-rally-draws-big-crowd

drover

Thanks for that, Drover. Some strange bedfellows there.

I think that all depends on your perspective. I see a "diverse, grass-roots coalition of private citizens, making their voices heard"

Actually the area I live in is mineral rich - gold, silver, molybdenum, cobalt, all in great quantities, it is what this part of the state was built on. The biggest problem is twofold, one being that the Forest Service and BLM are staffed by folks with Greenie leanings. The second is that any decision made in favor of mining, logging, grazing, is court challenged by one or multiple Greenie organizations with deep pockets.
They know which judges are likely to go along with their Green agenda and they court shop to be sure to get one of them, even if it is challenged up to the Federal District Court level it goes to the Ninth District Court which is the most liberal in the country and cases are usually upheld in favor of the Greenies.
It is a sad situation but nothing would change even if it was State owned land, it would still be challenged by the same organizations and go to the same judges.

I am for multiple use such as the Forest Service was originally set up to administer. I certainly do not want to see clear-cut logging, and polluted streams but there is a middle ground and that is controlled use of resources, not just shutting everything down.

drover

No, it was the usual suspect Green fronts, winding up their PR machine with a bunch of Trump haters. The TRCP looks to be the organizer -- you know, the group founded to stick an knife in the NRA.
I scraped down the press releases, with only one exception, it was the usual dreck.

Here you go again. You are either deranged or incredibly stupid.

Always funny to see a guy who was running down Trump and his family a few posts ago deride others as "Trump haters."

The difference is, many of the people at those rallies voted for Hyllary. That's why they're upset enough to rally. I voted for Trump in the general because he was the candidate -- NOT his kids. Ivanka's a warmunist and a high-dollar New York fence sitter (as would and should suit her business interests in that environment) -- not someone I'd expect to have a Republican or conservative or actual "conservationist" worldview.
And mudster, the origins of TRCA in Pew Trust money run through Trout Unlimited is beyond dispute, the artificial and deliberate creation of the "hunter and angler" narrative by traditional "environmental" funders is a fact. Organizations like BHA and TRCP exist to diminish the cred of the NRA when it comes to sportsman issues.
Go ahead, be an ostrich if you want, but I am certainly not deranged, nor am I stupid. That you would chiz on such a personal level means you can't deny that the rally was in fact spearheaded by an environmental group and funded by money that comes from anti-development political "philanthropies."

LOL Dave, you crack me up. Better be careful though, I hear the air raid siren in Miles City went down, they might come looking for a replacement.

BHA exists to counter the narrative that says every square mile of our National Forests needs a road through it and a small portion of our public lands set aside with no roads or noisy ORVs equates to being "locked out" with "no access." Because that's a false proposition and a phony narrative. There's excellent access for people who value solitude and are willing to walk or ride a horse a couple of miles so that they're not hunting with the orange army. There's an entire industry based on the large number of hunters who are willing to pay to do that. And no matter how much you carp about it, roadless areas still comprise only a small percentage of public lands.

You just can't wrap your head around that concept so you feel compelled to come up with these conspiracy theories. Savvy hunters know that public land hunting is better the farther you get from the road, and savvy fishermen know the same. If you've tried calling in a bugling bull a few miles from the road, and then tried the same thing within a mile of the road you know the difference. If you've ever fished a high mountain lake that seldom gets fished because it takes a few hours of hiking to get there and then fished in a roadside lake, you know the difference. Apparently, you don't know the difference or place any value on it, and that's just a reflection of your personal value system. Many of us don't share that.

As far as the NRA angle, it doesn't make any sense. Lots of BHA members are also NRA members. I am. The two aren't mutually exclusive no matter how often you peddle that claptrap.

And you're definitely barking up the wrong tree with mudhen. Unlike me, he doesn't get down in the mud to wrestle with the pigs very often if at all. If he calls you a moron, it's because you've earned it.

Sorry, but Backcountry Hunters and Anglers is a green group, first and foremost, joined at the hip to the TRCP. Here's their board of directors, a number of them professional greens.
This is just the top two guys of BHA, the board co chairs:
Ben Long Co Chair
Ben, an Idaho native, used to be the “environmental” reporter for the Daily Inter Lake. I always wondered about Ben’s objectivity, and wondered no more when Ben left journalism to take a job with Resource Media – he “opened the first field office for Resource Media in 2001 and his primary focus has been conservation of public land, water and wildlife habitat in the western United States and Canada.”
Resource Media provides support to environmental groups in the PR arena – “From planning to implementation, our strategic communication services can power up your advocacy a notch or two.”
Resource Media is a nonprofit spin-off of Fenton Communications, which first hit the radar when Fenton bought Meryl Streep before Congress to freak out over Alar, the apple pesticide. Remember that one?
Listed RM “partners” include the Brainerd Foundation, BlueGreen (union and greens) Alliance, Idaho Conservation League, Montana Wilderness Association, Southern Environmental Law Center, Wilderness Society, Wilburforce Foundation – all environmental groups or environmental funders.
Other RM clients include George Soros’ Open Society Foundation, and the National Parks Conservation Association, that to help “advocates win a campaign to create the first Marine Wilderness on the West Coast” – which more honestly was the elimination of a family owned oyster farm within the Point Reyes National Seashore. When the 40 year lease came up in 2012, the Park Service moved to depart the operation.
From the LA Times: In 1962, Congress created Point Reyes National Seashore, a wind-swept coastline that feels remote despite its location an hour north of San Francisco. Fourteen years later, President Ford signed the Point Reyes Wilderness Act, encompassing Drake's Estero, which was designated as a "potential wilderness" because it contained a commercial enterprise.
But was the oyster company really meant to disappear at the end of its lease?
In 2011, retired legislators who helped establish the Point Reyes National Seashore told Interior Secretary Salazar that they had always intended for the oyster farm to stay in business.
"The issue of what to do with the oyster farm wasn't even under contention," former Rep. John Burton told the Marin Independent Journal. "Several things were grandfathered in, and aquaculture — oyster culture — was one of them."
So that’s what RM does, creates spin campaigns for environmental groups.
Furthermore, in 2014, the Wilburforce Foundation recognized Ben with its annual Conservation Leadership Award. Wilburforce has been a longtime champion of conservation in the Northern Rockies and a consistent supporter of Ben’s work.
{in other words, Wilburforce funds Resource Media so RM can orthcestrate PR campaigns for the groups Wilburforce funds] In making the award, Wilburforce Yellowstone to Yukon Program Officer Liz Bell said, “It’s hard to imagine what the Flathead and Northwest Montana might have been like today without Ben’s enormous talent and commitment.”
We’d be more prosperous and have fewer fires, for one thing.
Joel Webster Co Chair TRCP Director for Western Lands, supports the Clean Water rule that farmers and ranchers hate. In fact, that is a huge line item for TRCP, they pulled out all the stops for the Rule, which the president most of us just voted for issued an executive order to re-do the EPA's power grab.
And guess what, on the Outdoor Life blog is THIS:
“Hunting and Fishing Groups Leery of Weakening Clean Water Act
Without clean water, the outdoors could suffer mightily
By Ben Long Yesterday at 7:19pm
Ben Long? Really? Yep, Ben starts with visions of the apocalypse:
Take the water out of a freestone trout stream and you’ll be casting to a bunch of rocks.
Drain the wetlands of America’s prairie pothole “duck factory” and you’ve got empty skies come hunting season.
That’s why groups like Trout Unlimited are worried about a move in Washington D.C. that would gut the Clean Water Act’s ability to conserve headwaters and seasonal wetlands.
Now, THAT’s a great lede….
Ben oh so randomly quotes Chris Wood of TU, who is otherwise known as the lead dog in the Clinton Roadless Rule, 58 million acres.
Nowhere is Ben’s day job with Resource Media mentioned, he's just a simple blogger and reporter.

George Soros!!! Meryl Streep!! I knew it!!!

You're on a roll Dave!!

But where's Rosie O'Donnell, she must be in there somewhere?

Yes, Soros's entity is a client of Resource Media. And the Fenton Alar hype campaign did a lot of needless, pointless damage to the Wenatchee apple growers.

It was all a big lie -- that's what Fenton does, and that's what its "nonprofit" public relations spinoff, Resource Media, does as well. So -- when the co-chair of an organization is a professional media strategist for various environmental and left-wing entities, what does that tell you about the organization's purpose?

And here's a little more about Ben -- aw heck, I'll just put the link here so everyone can read it:

http://www.hcn.org/wotr/14895

The first sentence of this one is -- "Like most gun owners of America, I do not belong to the National Rifle Association."

OMG, there's a BHA member who's not in the NRA, crank up the air raid siren. No wait, we don't need one, we have Dave Skinner.

Last time I checked Dave, it's a free country. People can join/not join whatever organizations they choose. And it's none of my business, although you like to make it yours.

I get it, you have a thing for Ben and/or any other person or organization that does not support unfettered development anywhere and everywhere on our public lands. Not everyone agrees Dave. Some even voice their opinions to that effect. That's called freedom of speech.

And when you have to chiz on such a personal level as you put it, it just shows how little you have to say. It's really unfortunate that you have to use so many words to say it.

Smoker,
Ben's not just a member, he's the co chair, an employee of an environmental group just like his co chair Joel.
That said, you're absolutely right, people can join and work for any outfit they want, take whatever money they get, and write whatever they want that makes their funders happy.
But the fact is, TRCP and BHA CLAIM to represent all sportspeople when they don't. TRCP actually claims to represent 9 million sportspeople, which I find completely without credibility. NRA has only 5 million.
Consider that TRCP's budget is no more than 6 million. 60 cents a member per year? Really?
Never mind that, even if true, TRCP DOESN'T represent the bulk of the claimed 37 million who still hunt and fish in America. Nah -- TRCP and BHA do the bidding of their funders, big, leftist foundations that dump millions into Environmentalism, Inc -- not sportsmen.
So, they can CLAIM whatever they want, but I have a right to express my own view. Free country, ya know.
I put up Ben Long's essay so that others could read his own words, which Ben of course is free to write.
At least he, unlike you, puts his name to what he writes.

No they don't Dave, that's a ridiculous claim. BHA never claimed to represent all sportsmen. They just reached the 10,000 mark, which is a milestone they've published and are proud of. That's hardly all sportsmen. They represent sportsmen who value roadless backcountry, as the name implies.




Not true Dave, I put my name on what I write. I hope you're not implying that I'm afraid to do that? Because that would be "chizzing on a personal level" and I know you don't like that.

I don't consider yanking your chain on this internet forum "writing," do you? I consider it cheap entertainment. But I am flattered that a real writer would be interested in my name so here's a link to a magazine where something I wrote was published. It's the feature story. I think you're really gonna like this magazine Dave!!:

http://www.backcountryhunters.org/b...ital_edition_brought_to_you_by_weatherby

Dang Dave, I just noticed that the online version of the magazine is sponsored by Weatherby!! Who knew they were leftists and part of the Soros/Obama/Streep cabal?? I can smell a story here Dave, this is gonna blow wide open!!

Come to think of it, Kimber donates firearms every year to help BHA raise funds, more leftists Dave, smoke 'em out!!