So many will perish for the simple reason they will not ask God to fill their heart with the Holy Spirit if He does exist. They dont want to have to change their ways. They fear the truth and instead ask for proof, not even wanting to find it. Someday they will get their proof.
One thing for sure, heaven doesn't have a minimum IQ requirement.
So many will perish for the simple reason they will not ask God to fill their heart with the Holy Spirit if He does exist. They dont want to have to change their ways. They fear the truth and instead ask for proof, not even wanting to find it. Someday they will get their proof.
As for my original starting point, you are just wrong, and you know you are wrong.
I start with the scientific proposition that something greater than the effect was the cause.
Again, you are wrong. If I push a single domino that topples a thousand, the effect is greater than the cause.
Also, you should google "butterfly effect".
We've gone through the before. You are forgetting the hours of intelligent energy that set up all the dominoes in the first place. Your argument is a sign of your total belief being fraught with problems!
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Once again you can't even keep your sciences straight.
Cosmology, geology, abiogenesis and biology are all separate fields of study.
Attempting to apply biology to cosmology doesn't work.
Again you are obfuscating. You still want to start with nothing and end up with people. All that you mentioned are different branches of the same thing: Science. In order to have the credibility to talk about Natural Selection you first need to show how Natural got here, including natural laws. Like that one evolutionist Ph.D astronomer said jokingly, "You can only appeal to the tooth fairy so many times," when referring to the problems with evolution whether talking about the evolution of stars or people.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
RM, whats sad is that many like our friend and compatriot AS will never be able to be saved. He and others like him are excluded by God from a chance at salvation and are excluded from having a chance of eternal life. They arent allowed the chance to believe and have faith as we have, and are shut off with no chance. Unreal.
Upon what do you base this assertion? I used to be an atheistic evolutionist till it couldn't support itself with facts.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
A S has commanded the ATTENTION of a half dozen members who are exactly his equal by any measure of importance. Now, he can feel smug about "besting" them in an argument in which he has designated himself as the judge. I'm gonna go search out some crappie and leave the "search for truth" or, perhaps more apt, mental masturbation, to those with nothing better to do.
Very good characterization of that fellow's endeavor and methods. Trying to reason with a self-appointed judge is an exercise in human futility. Wish I could join you fishing today - higher allegiance calls.
None of it's designed. Design is a human concept. The whole notion is just another example of man's tendency toward arrogance and concreteness.
400 Billion stars in the Milky Way, two trillion galaxies in the observable universe, yet every Christian presumes their god looks like them and not one of the myriad of likely alien creatures.
Yea, just a little arrogance and conceit.
And the highlighted shows your's, once again.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
der calvinistic theory/approach still works, that is god saves whomever he wants to save. do you disagree with that basic tenant?
Whether one is christian or not, the instruction from the bible is clear to understand. It does appear to indicate that God will not just choose people at random or at his whim. Rather, certain obligations are required of a person by God, before he offers his grace.
with genuine sincere repentance for ones transgressions, being one of them.
Clear instructions.
That's so funny.
Salvation is by faith alone.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already .... He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:18, 36
Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30-31
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth.... As it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:16-17
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28
For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:13
Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16
The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith. Galatians 3:11-12
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
Salvation is not by faith alone.
For you render to each one according to his works. Psalm 62:12 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin. Proverbs 10:16
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:14
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:10
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. Ezekiel 18:27
I will judge you ... every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 18:30
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:37
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16:27
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41-46
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luke 10:26-28
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:29
Who will render to each one according to his deeds.... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Romans 2:6, 13
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:15
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? James 2:14
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17
Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:21-25
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. 1 Peter 1:17
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Revelation 2:23
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Revelation 20:12-13
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. Revelation 22:14
If you are trying to convince the ignorant you might be successful. But the Bible student accepts all these verses and knows the rest of the story.
Hebrews 3:16-19 "For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Right.
Since it's now commonly accepted by Bible Scholars commie lying haters of all things good that Moses did not exist, and The Exodus never happened.
What do you do when you're not lying? Even lieberals have nothing on you.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
None of it's designed. Design is a human concept. The whole notion is just another example of man's tendency toward arrogance and concreteness.
400 Billion stars in the Milky Way, two trillion galaxies in the observable universe, yet every Christian presumes their god looks like them and not one of the myriad of likely alien creatures.
Yea, just a little arrogance and conceit.
And the highlighted shows your's, once again.
So your version of God is not anthropomorphic??
If he isn't what does he really look like, a slime monster from Alpha Centauri?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
A S has commanded the ATTENTION of a half dozen members who are exactly his equal by any measure of importance. Now, he can feel smug about "besting" them in an argument in which he has designated himself as the judge. I'm gonna go search out some crappie and leave the "search for truth" or, perhaps more apt, mental masturbation, to those with nothing better to do.
Very good characterization of that fellow's endeavor and methods. Trying to reason with a self-appointed judge is an exercise in human futility. Wish I could join you fishing today - higher allegiance calls.
CCCC,
Ultimately every man judges for himself. You may attempt to disclaim your judgement by attributing them to an invisible friend, but that doesn't change that fact those judgments are ultimately your own.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
If I told you to explain Quantum Physics, but insisted you use only grade school arithmetic, you would laugh at me and tell me to get an education first. .
YOu are spiritually blind and insist on evidence you can see with your eyes.
You are spiritually ignorant.
Willfully so.
Spiritually ignorant, can you even define that?
And here's the math, simple enough for an 80 year old:
Denying the existence of a Spiritual Dimension condemns you to Spiritual Ignorance.
The evidence is within you.
Again,
What do you mean by spiritual. Spiritual is a very slippery word. Does it necessarily relate to religion and a belief in the un-falsifiable mystical beings, or can it include awe inspiring experiences such as the music or Mozart, the birth of your child, the tales of sacrifice from our troops.
Later tonight I plan to do some business research with my wife at a sushi restaurant. I hope the experience raises to the spiritual, and not just the mundane.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/20/17.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Once again you can't even keep your sciences straight.
Cosmology, geology, abiogenesis and biology are all separate fields of study.
Attempting to apply biology to cosmology doesn't work.
Again you are obfuscating. You still want to start with nothing and end up with people. All that you mentioned are different branches of the same thing: Science. In order to have the credibility to talk about Natural Selection you first need to show how Natural got here, including natural laws. Like that one evolutionist Ph.D astronomer said jokingly, "You can only appeal to the tooth fairy so many times," when referring to the problems with evolution whether talking about the evolution of stars or people.
Again, you fail at every level.
None of this has anything to do with what I want, but what is indicated by the evidence. As for your assertion that one can only be credible on a subject if they know all the precursors, that's just non-sense.
If my son drops a glass on the floor covering it with shards, having witnessed the event, I know how the shards got there. It doesn't matter that I didn't buy the glass, or know what factory it came from, or that I don't know the ration of silica to sodium carbonate in the glass. I can answer no to all those questions, and still be knowledgeable about how the glass ended up on the floor.
If you really care about how evolution really operates, let me suggest an excellent source written by a Catholic with his PHD in Biology and current professor at Brown:
As for my original starting point, you are just wrong, and you know you are wrong.
I start with the scientific proposition that something greater than the effect was the cause.
Again, you are wrong. If I push a single domino that topples a thousand, the effect is greater than the cause.
Also, you should google "butterfly effect".
We've gone through the before. You are forgetting the hours of intelligent energy that set up all the dominoes in the first place. Your argument is a sign of your total belief being fraught with problems!
The only problem here is your inability to grasp simple concepts.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
All things make more sense to me with a little guidance from God. As I see it , Creation,Evolution,Quantum science-everything meshes together if I believe in a power that is not understandable. This is beyond our comprehension . God's gift of free will allows choose.I am follower of Jesus and when you believe in something greater it makes all choices easier.IMO
Why do you choose to call that not understood higher power God? Why not call it "The Combined Standard Model"?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
A thousand dominos falling is nothing more than a single domino falling a thousand times. It matters not to the domino and the affect is exactly the same as the initial domino fall, only repeated a thousand times. It's the way that the dominoes are arranged that is dramatic in affect.
Truth here according to physics - the initial effect has zero to do with each of the following effects. No magnification.
Antelope Sniper: "Cosmology, geology, abiogenesis and biology are all separate fields of study. Attempting to apply biology to cosmology doesn't work." Given that those are categories of scientific "study" formed and designated by man for the convenience of man's endeavors, the comment about "apply" very well may be true with regard to man's efforts. I have a hunch that a greater mind understands, relates and applies such factors in a very comprehensive manner - and that man's convenient categories may look puerile (at best) in comparison to the integration and understanding of the whole.
True.
And we have a long way to go before we've integrated it all.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Both religion and mysticism are like shadows of real Spirituality. You are a Spiritual as well as a physical being. Religion and mysticism are attempts to translate Spirituality into something more understandable to our finite minds when confronted with the Infinite.
The awe and admiration you mention speak to the Spiritual part of your being. You likely ascribe it to emotion, but underneath the emotion is something real.
Just as you cannot find words to describe a beautiful scene in nature that expresses EXACTLY how it affects you, so it is with the Spiritual Dimension. I can't describe the feeling of the first breath of fresh air after oxygen deprivation, but the deprivation is real and so is the air. It is the Breath that's indescribable.
A man's spirit will not rest until he comes to some agreement with his Creator.
A man can never understand his Creator, so he must attempt to understand himself, and in doing that, he finds the Creator.
All things make more sense to me with a little guidance from God. As I see it , Creation,Evolution,Quantum science-everything meshes together if I believe in a power that is not understandable. This is beyond our comprehension . God's gift of free will allows choose.I am follower of Jesus and when you believe in something greater it makes all choices easier.IMO
Why do you choose to call that not understood higher power God? Why not call it "The Combined Standard Model"?
A Rose by any other name is still a Rose isn't it? At least it used to be, now days it's doesn't seem to matter...
Both religion and mysticism are like shadows of real Spirituality. You are a Spiritual as well as a physical being. Religion and mysticism are attempts to translate Spirituality into something more understandable to our finite minds when confronted with the Infinite.
The awe and admiration you mention speak to the Spiritual part of your being. You likely ascribe it to emotion, but underneath the emotion is something real.
Just as you cannot find words to describe a beautiful scene in nature that expresses EXACTLY how it affects you, so it is with the Spiritual Dimension. I can't describe the feeling of the first breath of fresh air after oxygen deprivation, but the deprivation is real and so is the air. It is the Breath that's indescribable.
A man's spirit will not rest until he comes to some agreement with his Creator.
A man can never understand his Creator, so he must attempt to understand himself, and in doing that, he finds the Creator.
We are mostly in agreement here. The real difference is you credit the result of us being here to an intelligence, and I see no evidence supporting that proposition.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
