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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,254
Campfire Savant
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OP
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,254 |
I think J.B. Is correct, the young guys I hunt with are into camo and black rifles. They aren't going to spend a whole lot on a rifle and scope. They aren't impressed by a Biesen rifle. They wouldn't know a pre 64 or a Sako pre Garcia. They like AR 's and bipods. I wonder if all the valuable rifles will be worth anything in a few years?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
denton,
Both caseless ammo and electronic scopes with internal ballistic calculators have already existed in very viable forms for a while. I hunted with a Voere rifle using caseless ammo providing very similar ballistics to the .223 Remington in South Africa in 1993, and it was very accurate and reliable. In fact the only odd thing about using it was opening the action after shooting a round, and not having an empty case fly out of the action! The automatic reaction is to suspect some sort of extraction problem, but there never was a "stuck case."
The ammo was a little more expensive than standard brass-cartridge ammo, but not by all that much. But despite the best efforts of the same advertising/public relations firm that was making a major success of Swarovski optics at the time, it went nowhere in the marketplace. Maybe if the rifle hadn't been European?
The Burris Eliminator scopes with internal laser range-finder that light up an LED aiming point work very well. (Bushnell and Nikon marketed very similar scopes, but somehow Burris won out.) They also provide a reading for a 10-mph, full-value wind-drift in the "viewfinder" of the scope. Another scope/rifle system has been available that compensates for moving targets.
Those scopes admittedly do not provide a reading that includes automatic compensation for environmental conditions, such as temperature, elevation and wind, but those are already included in military "target-finding" programs. Would they be accepted/purchased by civilian shooters if available in scopes?
Obviously it would depend on price, but many hunters and target shooters are already spending several thousand dollars on conventional "mechanical" scopes, then using ballistic programs in their smart phones to make corrections for environmental conditions.
Would they be willing to spend as much for scopes that do it all? Indications so far are no, but as we've seen in recent years, technology that was considered too expensive often becomes much more "affordable" in a few years.
Whether or not shooters who've spent years learning to use mechanical scopes with ballistic apps will spend plenty of money, but scopes that take over their "job" are another question. There's always some resistance to new technology. We saw it a generation or two ago with synthetic stocks, which now almost totally dominate the market.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,115
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,115 |
I know there have been several attempts to do caseless ammo, and just recently noticed (yet another!) news release that the US military may have really, no kidding this time, found their caseless ammo solution. It seems to me that if that promise ever comes true, it will change the landscape.
If electronic scopes can be brought down in price to consumer levels, they offer some real advantages, maybe enough to offset the big disadvantage of being useless without batteries. I don't know.... would customers accept something like that? Electronic triggers were such a huge hit....
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
Along with electronic-ignition primers....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,625
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,625 |
OK. How about a caseless cartridge rifle with electronic ignition, yet still classified in most quarters as a..........;...........:................. primitive weapon: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...ic-stock-black-26-barrel-stainless-steel
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,865
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,865 |
Every new cartridge will have "Creedmoor" on it. They have found that merely hearing the word "Creedmoor" is more effective than any pill for combating erectile dysfunction. (The only downside being almost spontaneous ejaculation.)
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,765 |
One area that has room to grow here is airguns. As I've mentioned a time or two, I regularly watch British hunting shows on Youtube. A couple of the better ones have airgun spinoffs. Those folks take their BB guns very seriously, spending more on their toys than most of us do on real ones. It's not just because gun laws there are strict, as anything generating over 12 foot-pounds in England requires the same license as a firearm and in Scotland, any airgun does (although there's a bit of civil disobedience going on there about that).
The Brits take their pest control very seriously, with various pigeons, rats, rabbits, jackdaws, crows, foxes, and even flocks of beautiful little green parrots on the menu. One serious pest is American gray squirrels, introduced by someone, possibly as our payback for starlings. Some of the setups with night-vision, infrared, video-through-the-scope, and electronic scopes cost thousands; pounds, not dollars. The shooting can be very challenging given the looping trajectories and wind drift.
A while back, there was a test of airguns for use on foxes, using actual fox heads for targets. A PCP .30 caliber just crushed them. I'd have no reservations about using one on stuff as large as a turkey, after seeing that.
Check out Airheads and The Airgun Show.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,924
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,924 |
If congress can get the suppressor bill passed and rid them of all the BS associated with them, that market will explode.
Arcus Venator
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,086
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,086 |
This is a world of re-invention with nothing going on now for nearly 130 years. John Browning took the 1873 Winchester and made a semi-automatic out of it and before the turn of the century he ad a full automatic weapon functioning reliably.
Smokeless powder was invented in 1884 and put to use before the turn of the century, and so were jacketed bullets and bottleneck cases.
Today a 1911 is still considered modern, smokeless powder and other shooting components are pretty much the same as they were for over a hundred years. Improvements have been made, but other than slight modifications, nothing much is new in the last 100 years.
No complaints here though, as I still like reciprocating V-8 engines and rifles/pistols that shoot smokeless powder. I am content with the lack of innovation, and really can't call a Creedmore, Short Magnums, AR platforms or polymer pistols, innovative. Well said!
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340 |
.338 WSM with a 20" barrel, for those Texas deer hunters who have had to track deer shot with their .300 WM and who only practice with their rifle the weekend before the season opener and want a short, handy rifle.
Don't roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,140
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,140 |
Every new cartridge will have "Creedmoor" on it. They have found that merely hearing the word "Creedmoor" is more effective than any pill for combating erectile dysfunction. (The only downside being almost spontaneous ejaculation.)
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,249
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,249 |
Maybe a mid-priced Ruger No. 1 clone. Something in the $600-$700 US range.
I guess a lot of people still want overpowered cartridges, but it would be nice to have a 30-30 class cartridge in a Farquharson-style rifle. Something with nice looking lines that isn't $1500.
You could chamber the usual suspects (but not released at the same time). By that I mean the 22 Hornet, 303 British, 30-30, 7x57R. Or re-release the 375 Win, 307 Win.
I'd like to see something with nicer lines than an H&R or even the new Henry single shots. Mossberg made one.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,721
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,721 |
Yes. I haven't seen one around here in years.
It all boils down to what will turn the most profit. I doubt a single shot 375 or 7x57R would sell too many.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,704
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,704 |
Whilst it has taken some years to sink in and owning more than I ever need to own, in retirement, I am opted to throwing time (previously rare) and money funding hunts.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I can honestly say that my needs & desires are met in the arsenal I have.
I'm somewhat surprised in 'some' cals/cartridges that are occupying so much interest these days. I really don't know if some are genuinely interested or merely curious. As for myself I have NO interest in much of the NEW 'sensational' offerings.
To me 'less' is not more. OTOH some of the newer HOT rounds don't appeal to me **because** they're burning much more powder than they gain in performance.
I've spent a lot if yrs. and effort attaining and developing my 'herd'. Out of all, there is only ONE that may not stay. If it leaves, I will not have a void in the performance scale. I love the rifle, the cartridge - uh so so.
One advantage of Old Age is contentment.
That's not to say there aren't a few rifles/cartridges I'd like to PLAY with - a 416 RM being one. I don't need it so I have no regrets.
Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 04/22/17.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688 |
I'm down to a few 270's and a 6.5X55 swede. I'm planning to hunt the swede more than anything. So far the 100+ year old cartridge has killed game with 1 well placed shot.
I hear some of the new stuff out there such as the 6.5 creedmoor will kill game with a 1/2 a shot. 😀
Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,146
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,146 |
I would love to see a Model 70 extreme weather in .280ai. I wish one of the major players would chamber the 6.5-06a square. I know the folks here have discussed it.....seems like it would fall between the creedmoor and .264 win. Might come pretty close to the 6.5 saum.Perfect for Churners.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,475
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,475 |
[quote=denton]Caseless ammo. /quote]
I hope not. Reloading is too much fun.
But really, I'd like to see a wider range of existing cartridges offered. I'm sick of a new stainless/synthetic rifle offered in .243, .270, .308, .30-06, 7mm RMag and .300 WMag.
Last edited by Elvis; 04/22/17.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,866
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,866 |
If congress can get the suppressor bill passed and rid them of all the BS associated with them, that market will explode. +1
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I hear some of the new stuff out there such as the 6.5 creedmoor will kill game with a 1/2 a shot. 😀
Trystan
![grin grin](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif) You'd think ! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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