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Joined: Dec 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972 |
Why are manufacturers making scopes with such short tubes and long tapered objectives barely even giving room for mounts in one spot with no room for ER adjustment at all? Even Leupold's new designs are leaning in this direction. I noticed it the other day on the new VX5HD and VX6HD scopes.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
I blame it, and most everything else, on the 6.5 CM.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
Yup,have noticed that. Don't like it either. It's why I like the older scopes,plenty of room for moving for proper eye relief. Like this old Weaver 4x.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
It's just another 'advantage' for S A rifles. S A stands for short action rifles.... among a few other things. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611 |
I now days do not even consider a scope w/o at least 5.8in tube length and 3.75 eye relief. I know this limits me a great deal and usually Leupold is the only choice but w/a 14in LOP it is what it is. powdr
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,242 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,242 Likes: 3 |
Scopes that actually fit some rifles would be nice. I don't know what the dumb sons of bitches at the scope companies are smoking but they need to stop it.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
I suspect it's partly due to the trend toward using rails for mounting scopes, rather than bases where each ring only fits in one place.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
I am going to scope a Pre64 Model 70 in 257 Roberts, that I just picked up. Hard as HeXX to even find mounts. Thankfully I have setup I bought from JB awhile ago. Most do not even list actions and years any more. (Maybe I'm not looking in the right places..) The only scope I know that will fit and allow the rear iron sight to be left alone is a Zeiss Conquest 3X9X40. Gave that one to my son.. So can't ask for it back. A "short" scope will not work, the Zeiss is actually rather long. A pica-tinny rail on Pre64 would just be wrong..
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,891 |
Once again I'm going to state my suggestion that redfield offer a revolution version of the older long tube m8 scope. A decent 4x at $200 or just a little less would probably sell imho. The down side for redfield/leupold would be some erosion of the FX sales. A Burris fullfield II 4x32 would also be a good possibility if it was of comparable quality of the existing ffii products and built with a longer profile . I have an older Burris 4x that's a good scope. I figure if I mention it enough maybe someone will notice.
Last edited by bangeye; 04/29/17.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
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I suspect it's partly due to the trend toward using rails for mounting scopes, rather than bases where each ring only fits in one place. That was my guess but I was trying to figure if manufacturers were saving money in any way or even possibly making it so you would have to put the rings in the best place not to interfere with the internal operation. Either way I think it sucks. I see no reason to have an objective that tapers more than half the tube length.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
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I now days do not even consider a scope w/o at least 5.8in tube length and 3.75 eye relief. I know this limits me a great deal and usually Leupold is the only choice but w/a 14in LOP it is what it is. powdr Tube length and ER was the main reason I went with a Z5 recently rather than a couple other scopes that I actually liked better.
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,301 Likes: 9 |
They get to sell more scopes if each one is less versatile.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
No problems mounting most any short tube on an AR. Or on a Picatinny as Mule Deer said. That's where the industry is at these days.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1 |
I own two Burris Mini's, 3-9X short tube scopes. Really like them.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I own two Burris Mini's, 3-9X short tube scopes. Really like them. Why?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533 |
Once again I'm going to state my suggestion that redfield offer a revolution version of the older long tube m8 scope. A decent 4x at $200 or just a little less would probably sell imho. The down side for redfield/leupold would be some erosion of the FX sales. A Burris fullfield II 4x32 would also be a good possibility if it was of comparable quality of the existing ffii products and built with a longer profile . I have an older Burris 4x that's a good scope. I figure if I mention it enough maybe someone will notice. I've got an older M8-4X long tube that I'm very fond of. It'll actually fit a M70 without causing a headache. That said, I've got it mounted on a Marlin 336SC. It works, and I'm keeping it until I die.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,891 |
Yes actually there are several of the old scopes that were scaled to fit most any rifle. I have the older Burris fulfield I mentioned as well as a bushnell scopechief iv from the 80s/90s time period that also is a nicely sized scope and of course the old steel k 4 weavers seemed to easily fit on anything w/o looking out of proportion. Finally the m8s with the long tubes also fit most anything. I let my M8 get away in a trade and have regretted that so I am hopefully planting a seed that someone in the industry will pickup on. I like the current fx leupolds except they are a bit short and frankly as silly as you his sounds it sort of bugs me they cost as much or more than a variable. It shouldn't but it does.
Last edited by bangeye; 05/01/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1 |
I own two Burris Mini's, 3-9X short tube scopes. Really like them. Why? The glass from that era, 1970's, was far ahead of its years. It's clear, bright, has quality coatings ,lightweight, compact & optically refined scope for its time. It compliments compact rifle packages well.
Last edited by Reloder28; 05/02/17.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972 |
I own two Burris Mini's, 3-9X short tube scopes. Really like them. Why? The glass from that era, 1970's, was far ahead of its years. It's clear, bright, has quality coatings ,lightweight, compact & optically refined scope for its time. It compliments compact rifle packages well. I'm not all that familiar with those short tube scopes. My complaint is with new scopes like the VX6HD that gives 2" or less tube length in front of the adjustment turret housing and a long tapered objective taking up the rest of the length. Yes,it will work with a picatinny rail but that's about it. The great op[tics you speak of can just as easily be housed ain a slightly longer tube which will be much more versatile in mounting.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I own two Burris Mini's, 3-9X short tube scopes. Really like them. Why? The glass from that era, 1970's, was far ahead of its years. It's clear, bright, has quality coatings ,lightweight, compact & optically refined scope for its time. It compliments compact rifle packages well. I'm not all that familiar with those short tube scopes. My complaint is with new scopes like the VX6HD that gives 2" or less tube length in front of the adjustment turret housing and a long tapered objective taking up the rest of the length. Yes,it will work with a picatinny rail but that's about it. The great op[tics you speak of can just as easily be housed ain a slightly longer tube which will be much more versatile in mounting. I agree on the vx-6HD stupid design. Leupold needs to consult with Leica when it comes to scope tube length.
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