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Campfire Kahuna
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In the March 3 meeting set up by VanDeaver’s office, which was recorded with Miller’s permission, the commissioner responded to some of Hunnicutt’s safety concerns by saying that his agency could change the poison’s federally approved label to eliminate an important warning — as well as a requirement to bury the carcasses of poisoned hogs, which Miller said simply wasn’t “doable.”
In the recording, which Hunnicutt provided to The Texas Tribune, Hunnicutt says: “That product label right there says ‘all animals’ ... every one of them has to be recovered and put 18 inches under the ground. How you going to do that? ... How you going to find all of them, Mr. Miller?”
“I guess we should take that off the label, it’s not doable,” Miller says. “We’ll take it off.”
Hunnicutt then referred to the label's warnings about the dangers of the poison to other wildlife and domesticated animals.
“Animals that feed on those carcasses are going to die. It can kill them,” he told Miller. “Whether you say it or not, the label says it will.”
Miller responded: “We can adjust that too.”
The meeting lasted about 30 minutes, growing increasingly tense, before Miller finally stood up and walked out.
“It’s like he wasn’t listening to me, he had his mind made up, he had his little dog and pony show he’s been putting on this whole time,” Hunnicutt said.
VanDeaver said the meeting was impromptu and that he understood that Miller may not have been prepared to answer all of Hunnicutt’s questions.
But the New Boston Republican said he was troubled by the suggestion of changing the label and Miller’s indication that some of the poison’s use restrictions were not enforceable.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Albeit a one sided affair, I bet it will also cure cancer! 😂
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Campfire Outfitter
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Knowing hogs one of two things will happen. The hogs will develop an immunity to the poison and become unkillable super beasts, or they will quickly figure out it is poison while other animals do not leaving the hogs as the undisputed masters of all they see.
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Campfire Ranger
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The dangers should be apparent to any that thinks about it for a while. Those that just want dead hogs will over look them. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The dangers should be apparent to any that thinks about it for a while. Those that just want dead hogs will over look them. miles Yep. There were WAY too many problems with this one from the onset. I sure don't like hogs, and would take the shot if the last feral hog was in my sights. But, this stuff is bad news.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, we just call it something different. Lyin'. They think the end justifies the means. It doesn't. Perhaps if Obama hadn't done away with the USDA APHIS budget, there would be someone around to take care of this. I don't really agree with Wildlife Services providing all the protection for ranchers that occurs. I think ranchers that have predator problems ought to learn to deal with their own predator problem or hire someone that can. With areas of public health and safety issues invasive species pose, the USDA could be useful. But, they have dropped the ball on huge things before. Probably because they are a branch of government.
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If I'm following the chain of events correctly none of this matters. The meeting described in the OP occurred March 3, 2017 leading up to the goal of having the poison registered for use in Texas. The manufacturer withdrew its request to operate in Texas (citing the threat of lawsuits) in April, so warfarin is still a no-go in Texas.
The article is more about Commissioner Sid Miller being a bit of a dope than it is about warfarin. The warfarin connection is moot for the time being.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The article shows the lengths government will go to to get what they want done.
You are correct about Kaput being shelved at this time.
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm not up to speed on this poison debate, But I have to wonder what would happen to a human that ate pork from a feral hog that ingested some of this poison.
Figures don't lie, But Liars figure
Assumption is the mother of mistakes
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm not up to speed on this poison debate, But I have to wonder what would happen to a human that ate pork from a feral hog that ingested some of this poison. Might wanna get your INR levels checked!!! That is if it didn't do you in!
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,694 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm not up to speed on this poison debate, But I have to wonder what would happen to a human that ate pork from a feral hog that ingested some of this poison. The active ingredient that kills hogs is Warfarin. A blood thinner. Evidently from the rules of using it on hogs requires any hog killed by it to be buried and not consumed by anything, I assume it can harm not only humans but other carrion as well. That doesn't even account for the animals that may not have died from it yet, but are still walking around... A hunter could shoot and eat them. They could die in thick brush and not be found to become lethal to carrion anyway. Just too problematic.
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Warfarin effects last about three to four days. If it doesn't kill an animal pretty quickly, then it wears off. Millions upon millions of people take it every day as Cumadin.
Last edited by JoeBob; 05/16/17.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The article shows the lengths government will go to to get what they want done.
You are correct about Kaput being shelved at this time. Hopefully, "at this time" is not an operative phrase. It's a wonder in today's world, with all the information available, that some folks just don't realize the "cure" may be worse than the "disease" e.g. Cane toads in Australia mongoose in Hawai'i kudzu for erosion control, Eucalyptus for lumber and "beautification" Be careful there Texans, those ranchers/farmers only want to protect their crops/properties and probably don't have the interests of sportsmen in mind Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Kahuna
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In theory, the product kills hogs fairly quickly. Those running the abatement program should be on top of the issue in real time, and no hunting should be allowed in the area. In theory,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sam......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Warfarin effects last about three to four days. If it doesn't kill an animal pretty quickly, then it wears off. Millions upon millions of people take it every day as Cumadin.
there's a class action lawsuit over use of Warfarin as a blood thinner in humans. Coumadin Hemorrhage Side Effects
The FDA’s Coumadin drug label advises physicians and users that Coumadin can cause fatal hemorrhages. According to a study conducted in the New England Journal of Medicine, out of 99,628 hospitalizations of the elderly, 33 percent involved warfarin. The Coumadin recall occurred because Bristol-Myers Squibb feared the excess warfarin dosage would injure users by preventing their blood from clotting even if it needed to. Symptoms of Coumadin hemorrhage include:
unusual bleeding in the gums
frequent nose bleeds
heavier-than-normal menstrual or vaginal bleeding
severe or uncontrollable bleeding
blood in urine (pink or brown color)
blood in stool (red or black)
bruises caused by unknown events
bruises that increase in size
coughing up blood or blood clots
vomiting blood or vomit that resembles coffee grounds
Other Coumadin Side Effects
tissue necrosis (Fewer than 0.1 percent of users have suffered skin and tissue deaths. Some of them required organ amputation.)
embolisms (Usually these affect the liver, kidneys, pancreas or spleen, but one symptom is referred to as “purple toes syndrome.”)
immune system disorders
vascular disorders
liver disorders
gastrointestinal disorders
skin disorders
respiratory disorders
chills
Imagine if someone that's a hemophiliac gets a dose. If it's so safe, why is it mandated that if used, dead hogs have to buried?
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Poison will have lots of unplanned and unforseen environmental consequences. One being lots of dead vultures/ buzards, natures valuable cleanup crew. It's happened in Africa.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Warfarin effects last about three to four days. If it doesn't kill an animal pretty quickly, then it wears off. Millions upon millions of people take it every day as Cumadin.
Yup! On our way now to town for weekly INR check! It's when they took wifey off Coumadin and put her on Prodaxa (sic) she suffered her strokes. She's now back On wafarin.
Last edited by kaywoodie; 05/16/17.
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The reason that there are lawsuits is because doctors are prescribing it wily nilly for patients who then hit their heads or do something else to cause bleeding and then die. That said Cumadin is a lot better than Eliquis because the effects of Cumadin can be reversed with a simple vitamin K injection whereas Eliquis is irreversible. Though on the flip side Eliquis is much more trouble free and requires less monitoring than Cumadin.
I'm rather well versed on this right now as that my mother's funeral was exactly one month ago yesterday. She was prescribed Eliquis and fell and fractured her skull. There was no way to stop the bleeding and she suffered a massive brain bleed and midline shift. Though conscious at first, she lost consciousness within a couple of hours and died without ever regaining it a few days later. We were forced to watch more or less helplessly as that operating to relieve the pressure would have almost certainly meant that she bled out on the table and doing nothing meant she would die. We decided to let her go peacefully.
All that said, I'm pretty aware of how these blood thinners work.
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Campfire Ranger
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Warfarin effects last about three to four days. If it doesn't kill an animal pretty quickly, then it wears off. Millions upon millions of people take it every day as Cumadin.
Wafarin is rat poison... My wife took it for years to prevent strokes.
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