Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5 Creedmoor and 7 Rem Mag

Gunwriters et al.

I've read in one of Mr. Barsness' books (can't recall which one right now, maybe the handloading book?) about the great demand for 7 Rem Mag when it was introduced in the early 1960s. All my books are packed up in boxes right now.

Just wondering, was the demand for the 7 Rem Mag then similar to the demand for 6.5 Creedmoor now?

I in no way intend to pass an opinion on either cartridge.

v/r
Joel

Joel,
The 7mm Mag was/is popular in a lot of other countries outside the US. because of its flat shooting capability and range of bullets suitable for the majority of animals across the globe. There was perceived reason for its use as an improvement over existing options in the 60's.

The 6.5 cringemore is more likely a bored old man's fad cartridge and just because an internet forum comments on it a lot does not mean it is outselling anything else. The RCBS die sales list is always a year or 2 behind so it will be 2-5-10 years before we know anything and even then, that does not mean it will last.

Look at the cartridges introduced over the last 20 years and see how many are booming today, very very few.

There must be some kind of mental block when it comes to short cartridges and long bullets.

Fad for old guys? projection on your part, and about as backwards from reality as can get.

Given the shift from hunting to target and long range shooting in the US shooting community, there's a lot of space for soft shooting, accurate, short action calibers of small diameter with fast twist rates and high BC bullets. 6.5CM was the first commercial cartridge into that space in the US (.243win and .260rem had the wrong twist rate, 6.5x47 was not commercially available). For this reason alone it is and will continue to be a winner.

Since the other responders seem to have read a "cartridge debate" into your simple inquiry, I will play nicely. Yes, based on what I have read and what little I recall, it was similar and maybe even more fervant; however, for different reasons.

Roscoe,
The OP was using the Cringemore as a comparison to the 7mm Remington.
Because there are no facts on the table and not likely to be any for several years, there can only be opinion and I welcome yours.

I always saw the 7mm Rem Mag and the 264 Winchester mag as these companies dipping into Weatherby's market. 6.5 Creedmor is a little different reasoning.

You have to remember that when these rounds were introduced the rifle's didn't cost near what a Weatherby cost.

Thank you sir, I needed to chuckle and what better than that?

Jerry

Yeah, plus one!

The Creed really chaps some asses... weird.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is number one at being misspelled.

You nailed it.

I was in high school in the early 1960s. This was a time when anything with speed was interesting for young folks, 400+ cu. in. engines, mag. rifles, 3" mag. shotguns, anything with speed was welcomed as more interesting. The answer to your question is yes, a popular slogan associated with the 7 RM was "shoots as fast and flat as a .270 and hits as hard as a 30-06". What do you think?

I forgot to mention the sales and popularity was in part because it was introduced to the public with extremely false velocities, that were something like 150 grains at 3250 fps.

OP asked for "opinion" so take this as mine (though it be the fact, Jack).

When the sales go flat on "The Creed" there will be marketeers and magazines pushing a new pop gutless wonder.

joelkdouglas,

The demand for the 7mm Remington Magnum far exceeded that of any other cartridge I've seen in my lifetime. In comparison the buying boom for the .300 WSM was miniscule. One Montana friend who's about my age worked in a local saw mill during the late 1970's, more than a decade after the 7mm Remington Magnum appeared, and claims that every worker needed three things: a hard hat, lunch box and 7mm Remington Magnum.

In fact the 7mm RM was so popular that for several decades, when somebody went into a sporting goods store here in Montana and asked for a box of "Seven Em Em" ammo, they meant 7mm Remington Magnum, and not only did sales people know what they meant, but many shooters didn't know any other 7mm cartridge existed.

But the 7mm Remington was introduced back when there weren't nearly as many big game rounds on the market--in fact a year before the .300 Winchester Magnum. It definitely filled a hole in the market. Demand had been primed by several 7mm belted-magnum wildcats, including the 7mm Weatherby--which started out as a wildcat. Probably most of the priming came from Warren Page, the shooting columnist for FIELD & STREAM. Back then there also weren't nearly as many shooting magazines (and no TV shows or Internet) so one shooting writer could make a lot of difference. Page wrote a lot about hunting with various 7mm belted magnums, and when the the 7mm Remington Magnum appeared in a moderately-priced American hunting rifle it took over the market--and unlike the .300 WSM not for a few years but a few decades, becoming a standard world-wide chambering.

In contrast, the 6.5 Creedmoor's wasn't introduced as a hunting round. Instead it was just one of several similar mild 6.5's designed for target shooting with the short-action rifles that had become pretty much the standard for various target disciplines. But Hornady did a good job of both marketing AND supporting the introduction with excellent factory ammo, and when Ruger introduced hunting rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor they were very accurate as well, thanks to the excellent hammer-forged barrels Ruger's been making for about 25 years now.

The Creedmoor also appeared when far more hunters had recognized the advantages of "premium" bullets, and that a premium in the right place didn't have to weigh 180 grains or more in order to kill well. They were also realizing that muzzle velocity wasn't the only answer to longer-range shooting, that moderate muzzle veloicities and higher ballistic coefficients also worked . This was something target shooters had known for long time, but hunters didn't started to recognize until after laser rangefinders appeared, making accurate longer-range hits far more possible.

While I don't think the 6.5 Creedmoor will ever become as popular as the 7mm Remington Magnum, partly because there are SO many factory cartridges available these days, there are some similarities in their introductions. They were both factory cartridges that filled some already-present demand, and both rifles and ammo were affordable and accurate. Average hunters could buy an off-the-rack rifle and factory ammo and started shooting tiny groups.

I know this because of buying my first Creedmoor in 2010 after hearing the buzz--and due to my profession, having to find out if it was true. I bought a Ruger Hawkeye and several boxes of Hornady ammo at Capital Sports in Helena, Montana, and right out of the box the Hawkeye's first 5-shot (not 3-shot) grouop at 100 yards was just a little over half an inch. Many other people experienced the same thing, and the buzz kept growing.

These days the 6.5 Creedmoor is starting to replace the .243 Winchester as the big game cartridge Montana men choose for their wives and girlfriends, because it doesn't kick much more than the .243 but offers what they consider more effective elk bullets. Then the guys often shoot the "lady's rifle" and are impressed with both the accuracy and lack of recoil, and as a result some are even switching themselves, especially after seeing it work in the field. Increasingly it's perceived as a combination of the virtues of the .243 and .270 Winchester, often chosen to fill both slots.

Dunno if the Creedmoor's popularity will increase, but I recently logged onto MidwayUSA and found 19 factory loads available, from eight different makers. Some are target loads, of course, but many feature hunting bullets that are indeed adequate not just for deer but larger game--something Scandinavian moose hunters have known a lot longer than Montana elk hunters.

The Creedmoor isn't really the flavor of the month. It appeared a decade ago and has consistently grown in popularity ever since, but really started increasing after the Ruger hunting rifles appeared, in particular the American Rifle, and is chambered in more factory rifles every year. I doubt whether it will ever achieve the world-wide status of the 7mm Remington Magnum but you never know. A gun writer friend of mine just took his son to Africa for the first time a few days ago, and the kid's been laying plenty of plains game low with his 6.5 Creedmoor, impressing the hell out of the PH, and of course the results will be written up in several places.

The 6.5 Cringemore is number one at being 'misspelt" ie British English (The Original) and "Misspelled" is an American adaption. Did you know that American English has been modified several times to make it easier to learn and comprehend from Franklin's Phonetic Alphabet in 1768 and several attempts through the 1800's to Teddy Roosevelt's simplifications just over a century ago? What is right is more a local interpretation than a fact these days. Just wait until the entire world population learns to Text Message.

(Microsoft has nearly 2 dozen versions of the English language incorporated within its Spell Check options)

See, it is all opinion after all...........and location, which means if the Cringemore isn't a world hunting cartridge of superior and continual sales for 4 or 5 decades then is is not the equal in fervor to the 7mm Remington when released.

The OP was correct in his portrayal of a comparison and the opinions of the readers were also correct, as they were opinions.

Some arguments don't really achieve much of value, but hopefully there is a lesson now and then and bit of fun along the way.
John

Thanks AGW and JB!

I was prompted to ask because of Remington's email to it's distro list. There must be quite a demand for 6.5 Creedmoor if Remington is chambering rifles for it. I like Remington, but I wouldn't describe their rate of change as "nimble".

I have five 7 mags, but only two 6.5 Creedmoors. I guess the 7 is more popular, but now during off season pig hunting trips, I grab the 6.5 cause it's fun to shoot. Wait. I only have one Creedmoor, granddaughter took the Savage home with her. I have difficulty telling her no!

"Increasingly it's perceived as a combination of the virtues of the .243 and .270 Winchester, often chosen to fill both slots."

Yep, a good 120gr bullet at 2900ish works pretty well...gee, sounds a lot like a handloaded 257R to me!

Only Southtexas could say it that way...

Doc